Ball in Hand or on Ground?

[Dickie E]

I think its about the optics. Elite 7s is all about what looks good.
An example: a few years ago, the elite 7s referees started standing 10 metres from the mark at a penalty because the runner was going to head that way after the tap. The PTB decided it made them appear unfit and unable to keep up with play, so it now doesn't happen

 

[buff]

I’m not following WR’s clarification here.
If a player (intentionally, to restart play) drops the ball onto his foot and the ball bounces back up into his hand or any visible distance in any direction, why isn’t that a properly taken PK?

Maybe because the tap either on the ground or out of the hand is a kick through the mark, and dropping the ball on your foot really can't be considered a kick.

 

[Volun-selected]

I’m not following WR’s clarification here.
If a player (intentionally, to restart play) drops the ball onto his foot and the ball bounces back up into his hand or any visible distance in any direction, why isn’t that a properly taken PK?

I think the key is intentional actions and a visible kick through mark. One of the examples looks like a player holding the ball and tapping it on their foot - not a PK for me.

I would treat the action you describe - ball intentionally leaves the hands and is kicked - as a legitimate PK. Same if they intended to kick it back to hand and messed it up and say kicked it too far forward to catch, or sliced it sideways.

 

[crossref]

I’m not following WR’s clarification here.
If a player (intentionally, to restart play) drops the ball onto his foot and the ball bounces back up into his hand or any visible distance in any direction, why isn’t that a properly taken PK?

Sevens players were in the habit of placing boot on the ground , and bending down and dropping ball from a height of about 5cm onto their toe, and then haring off.
Clarification stopped that

 

[BikingBud]

Sevens players were in the habit of placing boot on the ground , and bending down and dropping ball from a height of about 5cm onto their toe, and then haring off.
Clarification stopped that

But by dropping, the ball has left your hand and can be regathered, of the 3 videos I would suggest in the second and third the ball was not dropped, the first one might be marginal and could be reasonably argued as being compliant with:

KICK- Definition. Law Book Page 6 A kick is made by hitting the ball with any part of the leg or foot except the heel, from the toe to the knee but not including the knee .a kick must move the ball a visible distance out of the hand or along the ground.

If it has been dropped from hand then it cannot be in hand.
Any movement after the kick and before the ball is regathered might be the issue as visible distance can be subjective and especially so if the quick tap is not taken where you can see it. A couple today were clearly taken in front of the mark and blindsiding the ref. But were not called back.

Dropping the ball onto the foot does not constitute a correctly taken Penalty or free kick and Law 21.4 (d) must be complied with:
21.4 (d)
A clear kick. The kicker must kick the ball a visible distance. If the kicker is holding it, it must clearly leave the hands. If it is on the ground, it must clearly leave the mark
Sanction: Unless otherwise stated in Law any infringement by the kicker’s team results in a scrum at the mark. The opposing team throw in the ball.

What about when the 3rd team prop comes along and back heels it

 

[smeagol]

I’m not following WR’s clarification here.
If a player (intentionally, to restart play) drops the ball onto his foot and the ball bounces back up into his hand or any visible distance in any direction, why isn’t that a properly taken PK?

As someone who used to do this (and played with teammates who I picked it up from), I was surprised at this clarification.

I think it has to do with the movement (or lack thereof) of the foot, but I’m just guessing.

 

[crossref]

I think it has to do with the movement (or lack thereof) of the foot, but I’m just guessing.

I think so yes, a kick has to involve actually moving your foot

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

I’m not following WR’s clarification here.
If a player (intentionally, to restart play) drops the ball onto his foot and the ball bounces back up into his hand or any visible distance in any direction, why isn’t that a properly taken PK?

I think the implication is that the foot must move and make the ball move. In the clips, the foot is not moving. Id never seen this clarification nor seen anyone attempt this. I guess it was coached specifically in the 7s circuit.
I think the clarification is correct. the foot isn't playing the ball, the ball is playing the foot to coin a phrase.

 

[jdeagro]

I think the implication is that the foot must move and make the ball move. In the clips, the foot is not moving. Id never seen this clarification nor seen anyone attempt this. I guess it was coached specifically in the 7s circuit.
I think the clarification is correct. the foot isn't playing the ball, the ball is playing the foot to coin a phrase.

Agreed. The ball is barely leaving the hands in some of them too.

 

[smeagol]

I think the implication is that the foot must move and make the ball move. In the clips, the foot is not moving. Id never seen this clarification nor seen anyone attempt this. I guess it was coached specifically in the 7s circuit.
I think the clarification is correct. the foot isn't playing the ball, the ball is playing the foot to coin a phrase.

I last played competitively in 2013, and this is something I used to do and would advise newer players to do when asked about a quick-tap.