Baptism of Fire

[rubyref]

Well, it was a baptism of fire!

Refereeing experience so far has been mainly U12s with a couple of U14s games thrown in. Did ELRA1/2 last year. I got a U19 Colts game as my first society appointment. I'm planning on doing a self assessment and will add to the site in a couple of days for more detailed feedback.

But there are two issues in the game I think let me down badly. And both are linked to card issues. Now, I'm a YC/RC virgin. :Nerv: Uptil now, at U12s, it's about teaching the lads, not getting them to sit at the side for 10.

The first issue was that I allowed one team to commit 5/6 tackle area penalties in the first half. The other captain was asking how many times they had to infringe (which to be honest probably influenced me not to go to cards even more). This easy going approach possibly contributed to the second issue.

The second issue was that 10 mins into 2nd half, after visitors score a try and I turn away to where conversion attempt will be, a punch up started behind my back in-goal which in a few seconds had almost all players and some subs involved. Bloody nightmare!!!! I stood 2 metres away blowing the whistle every couple of seconds until they got bored and stopped.

Couldn't send them all off. Fleeting desire to abandon the match and get outa there (it passed almost as soon as it came). Pulled the captains in and told them it didn't happen again and if it did I'd pick one from each side to go - at random if necessary. Rest of match passed without incident.

There were some good things - it wasn't a complete disaster - but I'll cover those in full report. But this is the area I think was the my biggest weakness - that is, management of discipline. No assessor so you've only got my version of events :chin:

Totally knackered today - more mentally than physically (although had to coach/ref the U12s my son plays in so that helped )

All that said, really enjoyed it! Does that make me a masochist?


Any advice on what consitutes YC/RC at the levels I'll be reffing to start (I imagine this was a L9/10 game) and protocol for warning/giving cards?

Also, advice on how to manage the 30 man punch up.

 

[Stoo48]

Firstly, I question whether you should have been doing that game, a newly graded referee in Warwickshire would not be doing a L9/10 game, I have been refereeing 4 years and I'm only just knocking on the door of 7 (some may argue I just old and crap....).

Secondly, yes I think you did wait too long before going for a yellow, but you have a huge amount to think about in senior rugby, in my game yesterday I warned a captain about a player repeatedly going in at the side after 2 penalties in the early part of the first half (10 mins or so). The captain managed the situation so I didn't need to goto my cards.

As for whether it triggered the second event who knows. One word of advice when walking back for a convertion, do it backwards, it means you keep an eye on the ball, and any sillyness. If it does kick off only blow your whistle twice or so, then walk back and open your field of view, if its handbags, leave it to blow out, but really watch for the frustrated winger running in from 30m away, his punch is pre meditated not a reaction and by this nature is far more likely to cause injury thatn 2 props cuddling each other.

If this was a colts game I would also have sopken to the coaches about the subs involvement.

Don't lose sleep over it, it happens to us all at some point, well done for not abandoning it.

Try and get more approprite games in future, build up to colts, they are too damn quick anyway!

 

[rubyref]

Couple of other points to add:

This was a last minute appointment, as my initial game was cancelled at short notice, and due to shortage of refs it was me or nobody. I'm sure ideally an more experienced ref. would have done the game. But at least they got a game.

Also, the L9/10 is my guess, and given the level of ref doing the home sides games in March. Don't get too hung up on that point.

 

[Phil E]

(some may argue I just old and crap....).

Well I think..........................no..................it's just to easy :biggrin:

Try to keep a mental count of penalties (hard when you first start). After a couple in quick succession by the same player, or for the same offence, you need to speak to the captain. "That's two xyz in xyz minutes, if we have any more that player may be taking a rest", or "this is a team warning".

Two penalties for (lets say) in the side, in two successive breakdowns, you might warn the Captain, then if they do it again, it's a yelow card.

Red Cards are generally for serious foul play...................you will know it when you see it!

Mass fight; as Stoo says.

• Blow whistle once or twice long and hard
• Get a wider view of the situation
• Makes mental or (if possible) actual notes on who started it (if you saw, generally you won't), then the player that runs in and throws a punch. It's not his fight, he had no reason to get involved. Think of red blooded punch verses cold blooded punch.
• When it all calms down, separate the two sided by at least 10m
• Create time for yourself
• Call over the Captains
• Tell them to get the players you want to speak to (colour, number)
• Keep these ones separate again. You might even want to call over one team at a time
• Deal with these players, RC, YC, Bollocking
• Speak to the Captains, you are supposed to be in charge of your players, etc, no more, etc
• Restart with a penalty, if your not sure who started it, pick a side at random.

If you want another fight, restart with a scrum :biggrin:

 

[Mike Selig]

Hi,

Well done on getting stuck in. Agree with above that Colts match is a toughie for a first appointment. Sometimes it's not bad to get these out of the way quickly.

On your specific points, seems your analysis is good. Did you speak to offending skipper about too many tackle infringements? Certainly after 3 offences at that level (Colts are very usefull) I would advise a quick "time out, captain to me please. Too many penalties given away at the tackle, anymore and my options will be limitted, understood?" then offer him the chance (or tell him) to talk to his team. This is a one way discussion, and his input is not needed (a simple "I'll talk you listen for now" if he starts to say "yes but what about...?"). If further offence shortly afterwards YC, no option.

On "when it all kicked off"... 2 meters sounds too close. If it doesn't blow out immediately, take a few steps back so you can observe arriving players. That winger who has run in 30 metres to throw a punch is sent off (RC). I like to bin the two that started it, and the two who made it into a brawl, but there's no fixed rule. As I say, anyone flying in from miles away gets red, as does anyone head-butting, or punching the head from behind, generally speaking.

Once over, seperate the two teams and take your time. walk away backwrads still facing the teams whilst thinking about what you're going to say. Call over captains and any infringing players. Be concise and precise "you did this, you did that" send off relevant players, inform captains of restart (can be pen, can be just restart as per what was happening if unsure whose offence was the worst. As a guideline if one RC, penalty against his team), and REQUEST they talk to players to calm them down. Remind them of their responsabilities.

Post brawl, slow the game up. Little or no advantage, no quick taps, zero tolerance quick whistles. Once the players seem to be behaving themselves go back to normal.

Glad you enjoyed it nevertheless and better luck with the next one.

 

[Taff]

• Blow whistle once or twice long and hard
• Get a wider view of the situation

Does this depend on the players ages? I was TJing an U15 game today when a fight flared up. In fairness the ref did stand back, but in the eyes of the parents this did not solve the problem. TBH they were horrified that their kid was being pummelled, while the ref slowly walked away presumably to get a wider view. Quite honestly this did not help the situation, as the parents became increasingly incensed which in turn transferred through to the players and led to a very fractious match.

As it happened the Flanker took the law into his own hands. :wow:

 

[SimonSmith]

Not sure what the referee was meant to do. can't intervene and put hands on the kids, in which case managing the situation is all he can do.

 

[Stoo48]

Absolutely Taff, get a wide view, at the very least you don't want to get hit yourself.

 

[Dixie]

Congratulations on getting your first game under your belt, Rubyref. Colts rugby is a very big ask for a new ref - if you came through that largely unscathed, you'll be fine.

Cards - depends on age. If you're playing 25 minute halves, cards will be extraordinarily rare. 30 minute halves, you'll start issuing them when the testosterone gets out of control, or when the little sods think you can't see when they are deliberately cheating. This will still be fairly infrequent, but not unusual. 35 minute halves, your cards are a vital management sanction, and are being used as you would for an adult game. This is no help to you at all, as a) you haven't done an adult game; and b) new refs are always, always too keen to keep players on the park. So when should you card in adult games?

A red card usually shouts at you that you have no option. If you aren't sure, a yellow will probably suffice.

A yellow card should be used: for serious foul play that doesn't warrant a red; for cynical offences such as slowing down quick ball from which the oppo may well score (gain Robert Burns's everlasting thanks by having a word with Dave Pearson to remind him of that); as a rap on the knuckles for the side that is just infringing too often, thereby ruining what might become a decent game.

It is this last in partcular that new refs are reluctant to use. Last season I had a game at Portsmouth where, from the initial kick-off, the Home side infinged three times at breakdowns, with the Away team overcoming the obstacles placed in their path and gaining an advantage each time. At the first break in play, I warned the skipper that there were too many breakdown offences, and they needed to tighten up on discipline. Had my first Home player in the bin about 3 minutes later - well within the first five minutes. Harsh? I'd certainly have thought so in my first year of reffing. However, I had a good game from then on, and I've had too many games where a failure to bin early led to deteriorating standards and frustration from both sides.

Short message: cards work.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Rubyref, haven't quite worked out who you are yet from the appointments but if you want any direct advice on up coming games feel free to contact me directly my details are in the handbook and you can mail me direct from this site.
With a county as big as ours and only a handfull of advisors it isn't possible for you to be watched everytime but you soon will get to know people around the clubs who you can rely on for an honest opinion and advice.
Sounds like you did ok :clap: You will get excellent advice from this site. keep posting you will learn a lot.
See you at the next society meeting if I can make it