Bath vs. Northampton - penalty denied

[mark.lucas]

In the dying moments of the game Bath were attacking and penalty advantage was given.

Northampton's defence was solid so Bath took a shot at the sticks in open play.

The referee, Matthew Carley, then referred the decision to the TMO who declared there was no penalty offence.

Play had carried on under this advantage and was now effectively annulled. This DID affect decision making by the players.

How? Was it correct?

Your thoughts welcome as always.

 

[crossref]

I think that its a critical errors. Once you have signalled PK advantage you can't rescind it.

 

[Toby Warren]

What would the greater injustice be?

If he awards the PK (which wasn't an offence) and Bath win or what actually happened?

Either way the protocol failed here.

 

[crossref]

yes, but think of the starkest scenario

you signal PK advantage, and the SH says 'we'll take the PK please'
and then you say 'sorry it wasn't a PK' after all

that can't be right

and how would you restart?

we can't TMO every single decision, we just have to accept that sometimes there are mistakes.

 

[Toby Warren]

yes, but think of the starkest scenario

you signal PK advantage, and the SH says 'we'll take the PK please'
and then you say 'sorry it wasn't a PK' after all

that can't be right

and how would you restart?

The protocol failed. What 'should' have happened is that he awards the PK - that's the correct decision but that is clearly wrong as well.

The AR (who called in the foul play) needs a 'softer' option - i.e. the ability to alert the ref to POTENTIAL foul play which needs a TMO check

 

[winchesterref]

Or we stop looking for foul play in game, trust the referees and ARs and start to accept mistakes will happen.

Tough call, a mistake can break a season, but it seems fans and players are in favour of less TMO and more "instant" decision making

 

[mark.lucas]

Thanks for all the responses.

As I viewed it - once the referee has made a decision that is the end of it.

 

[Toby Warren]

Or we stop looking for foul play in game, trust the referees and ARs and start to accept mistakes will happen.

Tough call, a mistake can break a season, but it seems fans and players are in favour of less TMO and more "instant" decision making

In this case Bath would have won this game on a wrong decision.

AR calls it in TMO looks at it while play carries on feeds in to ref if he needs to award anything

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks for all the responses.

As I viewed it - once the referee has made a decision that is the end of it.

Mark trouble is the ref didn't make a decision - his AR did.

 

[TheBFG]

My understanding is that the AR called in "potential foul play" and as it currently stands (unless there's been a secret email) is that the ref signals advantage, which he did. Bath took an attempted DG, missed and assumed he'd come back for the PK :shrug:

My guess is that there will be a change in protocol before this weekends games, something along the lines of, if an AR (or ref) thinks they've seen foul play (and they are able to) they should play on until the next time the ball is dead, at that point they can confer and refer to TMO if they need to.

Well as long as Bath get a point tomorrow it won't matter :Nerv:

 

[dave_clark]

but it seems fans and players are in favour of less TMO and more "instant" decision making

until a big call goes against them.

 

[winchesterref]

Exactly Dave, can't win either way!

BFG... If quins win, unless bath get 2 points then I believe quins take 4th?

 

[crossref]

quins are three points behind, and with better wins record so if quins win then a losers bonus won't be enough for Bath.

basically Quins need to score three points more than Bath do...

 

[OB..]

We need a new signal for "I may be playing advantage. Or not" How about :shrug: ?

 

[Ian_Cook]

How about :shrug: ?

Nope, cant use that one. Its already being used for "play on" (and annoyingly, by players for "'c' mon ref, he's not releasing / offside / not rolling away / in from the side / thrown the ball forward / knocked the ball on" (delete as applicable)

How about

 

[Waspsfan]

quins are three points behind, and with better wins record so if quins win then a losers bonus won't be enough for Bath.

basically Quins need to score three points more than Bath do...

Bath can of course get two bonus points by losing by less than 7 and scoring four tries.

 

[crossref]

quins are three points behind, and with better wins record so if quins win then a losers bonus won't be enough for Bath.

basically Quins need to score three points more than Bath do...

Bath can of course get two bonus points by losing by less than 7 and scoring four tries.

Yep, and if they get two points then Quins need five