Blood replacement

[ianh5979]

I was doing a level 10 league game yesterday when 1 side who had used their 3 subs lost a player for a while to a blood injury. I read somewhere that a substituted player could be used as a blood replacement but only for the 15 minutes allowed then he would also have to leave if the original player could not return. The opposition coach was not happy about this.(The original player returned after about 5 minutes). Anyone think this was wrong?

 

[KML1]

You can only do that for a front row forward. Once they've used the three replacements, that's just unlucky.

Can't see it, but there may be local regs in various 2nd team/lower league competition regs, so always best to try and find them.

 

[Simon Thomas]

There may well be variations allowed at level 10 in Yorkshire, but in London &SE 1-4 and Hampshire 1-3 (3 = level 11) then only 3 subs (4 for Jersey and Guernsey) are allowed and once used only FR can be replaced for blood (or sin) bin by one of 3 players already replaced.

 

[ianh5979]

thanks for the comments, found in the laws 3.12 exception 1
"a substituted player may replace a player with a bleeding or open wound"

 

[OB..]

We have been round this before. It raises the problem as to what to do if the player with the bleeding wound cannot return in time. If you allow the substitute to stay on, you have circumvented the main purpose of 3.12.

 

[Dickie E]

Is 3 subs a local variation? Normally 7 subs are allowed as per Law 3.4.

 

[Padster]

The number of subs allowed depends on the level/grade of the match and any locally agreed (ie merit table) rules.
The league regs are set by the RFU.

 

[Will.Q]

Hang on, let's break this down.

1. Blue have 15 on the field. Have used all three subs. Man goes off with blood. Can blue bring on an already subbed player as blood? If so, what happens after 15 mins?

2. Same scenario, but not blood, front row goes off injured, again after all 3 subs have been used.

 

[Greg Collins]

why the special dispensation for Channel Islanders? Does the lack of taxes make them more fragile?

 

[Simon Thomas]

Will Q

I think KML1 and I were wrong earlier - see exception 1 below !

The Law references are in 3.12.

It is essential to make a distinction between substituted (tactical changes) and replaced (injured) players. 3.12 only applies to substituted players.

3.12 SUBSTITUTED PLAYERS REJOINING THE MATCH
If a player is substituted, that player must not return and play in
that match even to replace an injured player.
Exception 1: a substituted player may replace a player with a
bleeding or open wound.
Exception 2: a substituted player may replace a front row player
when injured, temporarily suspended or sent off.

So to answer your specific questions my (amended view) is :

1. Yes they can bring on one of subbed players as a temp blood replacement. If injured player does not return within 15 mins of elapsed time the replacement (as a player is injured) becomes permanent for rest of match (3.10 a).

2. FR covered by Exception 2 - so again yes, as long as returning prop is not injured and earlier replaced.

 

[OB..]

If injured player does not return within 15 mins of elapsed time the replacement (as a player is injured) becomes permanent for rest of match (3.10 a).

Law 3.10 (a)

If the player who has been temporarily replaced does not return to the field of play within 15 minutes (actual time) of leaving the playing area, the replacement becomes permanent and the replaced player must not return to the field of play.​

Law 3.12

​

If a player is substituted, that player must not return and play in that match even to replace an injured player.​

When a bleeding player cannot return, does he not become an injured player under 3.12? I could wish the law were clearer on this point. If we allow the replacement to stay on, we have circumvented the intent of 3.12.

Of course there is no problem is the temporary replacement can actually become a substitute in the normal way, but then we are not using the exception in 3.12.

 

[Will.Q]

I'm getting a little confused here.
So if a team has used all of their allocated substitutions (usually 3 at say level 8/9), there is nothing, in theory to stop them saying a front row player is injured (when he's not) and then bringing on a front row replacement who is fresh and not fatigued?

 

[willsie]

bingo

 

[Simon Thomas]

Quite right WillQ but very rare in practice due to FR union pride, and playing to rules by clubs - things like respect, fairness etc still exist.

Also most refs will be pretty sure who is faking injury and clubs will report to Comp Committee any possible 'playing of the rules' at all levels - as recently as Wasps v Leicester in Premiership.

 

[willsie]

Quite right WillQ but very rare in practice due to FR union pride, and playing to rules by clubs - things like respect, fairness etc still exist.

Also most refs will be pretty sure who is faking injury and clubs will report to Comp Committee any possible 'playing of the rules' at all levels - as recently as Wasps v Leicester in Premiership.

I was recently involved in a test match as the 4th official in Australia. The Women were playing New Zealand in a two match series and we had this exact incident occur. If they tick 'Injury' on the substitution card there is nothing we can do to prevent this. They are merely rendering that player unable to come back again for the match.

The occassion we experienced as prop #1 was Substitution Tactical at the 50 minute mark. At the 68 minute mark the other prop #3 went down injured and as a result of the other front row replacements been made previously she was allowed to return to the field.

Against the spirit of the game. Yes. Within the laws? yes