Both teams angry after game

[Donal1988]

I had a game yesterday and ended up with both teams FURIOUS with me after the game. Very hostile bar after game. Red v Blue. Penalty count was 20 penalties and 2 yellow cards against Red. 7 penalties against Blue. Red were sealing off all day long. Red coach and captain weren't happy after the game though. First it was that they shouldn't have been pinged and then when one of their club officials told them I was right it was that I should have pinged Blue more.

Match was tied 12-12 with time expried. Blue had possesion and gave away a PK for holding on about 45m away from goal. Red kicked it wide but it stayed in and Blue gave away a penalty for obstruction 5m from their own line. Red kicked it and they lost by 3. VERY VERY angry team. However they accepted it only after they checked the video camera after the game and their captain bought me a pint to say sorry.

 

[dave_clark]

so, just to summarise, you were right and they were acting like a bunch of spoilt brats?

 

[Dixie]

You don't say why Blue were peeved.

 

[Casey Bee]

You don't say why Blue were peeved.

Because they lost in that final play and didn't think they were in the wrong. (Were later shown by video evidence later that they were wrong)

 

[Donal1988]

so, just to summarise, you were right and they were acting like a bunch of spoilt brats?

Correct. And this wasn't a kids game either. Not one single member from the Blue team coaching or playing staff approached me to thank me for giving up my Saturday until after the learnt they were wrong. Red coach wanted to know exactly why they conceded so many penalties - sealing off all day long and eventually stopped when I carded them.

A most unpleasant bar afterwards I have to say. A guy in a blazer put a cheese sandwich and bowl of soup in front of me without saying a word.

 

[Zulu_Bravo]

That sort of behaviour merits a telephone call to someone within your society. Next week's ref and all that ...

 

[Davet]

So why did they not get the message about sealing off, you pinged em for it all day, and there were two YCs (for sealing off?) - so you must have explained this to them at some point.

Did they not understand what they were doing wrong?

 

[Rit Hinners]

So why did they not get the message about sealing off, you pinged em for it all day, and there were two YCs (for sealing off?) - so you must have explained this to them at some point.

Did they not understand what they were doing wrong?

Just because they understand, doesn't mean they will quit.

Many years ago (in the 80s) at the very first lineout of a game I spotted Black5 infringing and PK'd him. It was for barging, lifting, holding down, whatever.... He ended up doing every infraction you could think of during the course of the game and I kept pinging him.

At one point his captain became quite livid with him and asked him WTF was going on.... He replied, and I quote, "Every time I try something he catches me." I guess stopping was something that hadn't occurred to him.

It seems that cheating at lineouts was so ingrained in his blood that he couldn't stop himself.

 

[Davet]

Rit - :biggrin: - oh so very true, plenty like that - but they don't get angry when pinged, they know what they did, and they are just a tad miffed that you did too.

But if they are angry it is usually because they have not understood what the problem is - and it may well repay the ref'e effort if he simply takes time off, and explains simply and clearly to the captain what the problem is - perhaps as a build up to a YC... but if you ensure they know what they are doing that you think is wrong (even if they don't agree with you) they have a chance to "play the ref", which should be their objective anyway.

 

[ex-lucy]

i am beg to realise certain things .... as our L2 ref told us recently

both teams want all decisions to go their way
both teams dont care about you
keep your standards
act nasty/ nice ... ping 'em but be polite and smile ...

 

[FlipFlop]

Ex - yes I agree with you statements, but.....

A good explanation at the warning stage (or before if a suitable pause in play occurs) can reap wonders in calming things down and getting players understanding and onside. i.e. "Captain - your #6 is constantly going off his feet and sealing the ball in / bridging etc. He has to support his weight on his feet, not his hands, or a body on the ground. He has already been penalised for this several times. If he continues I may have to use other options. Please keep him on his feet. Do you need a minute to speak to him?"

 

[Dixie]

i am beg to realise certain things .... as our L2 ref told us recently

both teams want all decisions to go their way
both teams dont care about you
keep your standards
act nasty/ nice ... ping 'em but be polite and smile ...

This may not endear you to an assessor though! This can be a real problem: when you retain your standards and teams don't listen or don't respond to what you are asking of them, the PK count can escalate to levels that no assessor will tolerate. In addition, the card count can be horrendous.

The referee can reasonably say: I kept asking them not to infringe, but they kept infringing. I'd be damned if I pinged them and damned if I ignored them, so I maintained my integrity and pinged 'em. A count of 35 PK's and 8 cards is not my issue.

An assessor, by contrast, will take the view that a ref with a better management style would have found a way to both maintain integrity and keep the PK/card count down to acceptable levels, thereby improving everyone's day. They may not be able to say exactly how this could be achieved (mumblings of "white noise", "look 'em in the eye", "specify the number of the guy with his back to the floor when telling him not to handle in the ruck"), but the fact is that there probably are plenty of refs among your peers who would have had a better outcome on the day. The main point is that your numbers didn't stack up acceptably, so you get marked down.

 

[SimonSmith]

Sometimes, and this is where a chunk of the "magic" lies in refereeing, it ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it.

 

[dave_clark]

yep, that's what gets results.

 

[OB..]

This may not endear you to an assessor though! This can be a real problem: when you retain your standards and teams don't listen or don't respond to what you are asking of them, the PK count can escalate to levels that no assessor will tolerate. In addition, the card count can be horrendous.

The referee can reasonably say: I kept asking them not to infringe, but they kept infringing. I'd be damned if I pinged them and damned if I ignored them, so I maintained my integrity and pinged 'em. A count of 35 PK's and 8 cards is not my issue.

An assessor, by contrast, will take the view that a ref with a better management style would have found a way to both maintain integrity and keep the PK/card count down to acceptable levels, thereby improving everyone's day. They may not be able to say exactly how this could be achieved (mumblings of "white noise", "look 'em in the eye", "specify the number of the guy with his back to the floor when telling him not to handle in the ruck"), but the fact is that there probably are plenty of refs among your peers who would have had a better outcome on the day. The main point is that your numbers didn't stack up acceptably, so you get marked down.

If the point in blue is correct, then you could have managed the game better, and a good assessor will be suggesting ways of doing that.

The point in red is wrong - at least as far as this assessor is concerned (it may be different at higher levels).

 

[ex-lucy]

dixie, same ref said .... ignore the assessors .. half of them dont know what they are talking about.

 

[Davet]

Everyone has one of those games, and an odd one with 35 PKs can happen...

When its every other game..... then something may be out of kilter.

 

[Dixie]

dixie, same ref said .... ignore the assessors .. half of them dont know what they are talking about.

:clap: :clap: :=

 

[tim White]

Therefore, half of them do.:chin:

Which half is it?

 

[Davet]

Simon T's half