Once I go put my mud encrusted kit in the wash, I will tell you all about one of the most bizarre games of rugby I have refereed in my memory. Let's just say that my kit needs to go in the wash now before it bakes solid with all the mud over it, and that I needed my spare whistle to stop me eating any more mud out the one I started the game with.
Cambridgeshire U16 v. Canada U17/16
- Thread starter PeterTC
- Start date
Well, what an interesting evening.
Turned up at Shelford Rugby Club in the torrential rain that had blighted Cambridge all afternoon at 5:50pm (for a 7pm KO) to find no-one in the changing rooms on my arrival. Wondered inside to the clubhouse to find a few players there, and popped outside to find the U16 Lead Coach of the county around looking at the pitch. As we were not on the main pitch, and on the pitch which is generally used for training (as it has lights), the pitch was in a slightly interesting condition to say the least, with a fair amount of standing water and some rather large looking puddles. He was obviously desparately keen for them to play, and I have known him for a while now, but from where we were standing it didn't look promising. Canada were stuck in traffic on the way out of Cambridge, so while they were en route, I agreed to put some tracksuit bottoms and boots on and wander out onto the pitch to see if what looked from the sides as unplayable actually was. This is where is started to get interesting. While a thin layer of water (apart from some large puddles) covered nearly the whole pitch, the ground underneath was nice and firm, a result of the compacting of lots of youth games and training sessions. A trek around the pitch however found the big problem to be the puddles, in places a good 10 metres across and about boot depth. Still keen to play, a few conversations were had between Cambs coaches and youth chairmans, and it was agreed to wait until Canada arrived to make a decision. They turned up about 6:20 and were also keen to play, this being their last game on tour and with having had one game cancelled already, they were happy enough with the pitch. Now this was a major hurdle overcome, I think it was fair to say that nearly any other day the pitch would have been deemed unfit for the purpose of preserving it and for the fact of the amount of water on it. Having been on the periphery of the discussions, I fully outlined my views that I was happy with the ground, and the majority of the standing water (which was soaked up as soon as you put a boot in the ground by it), but that the large masses of water, which numbered a good 8 or so large puddles across the ground had to be drained or cleared. With kick off put back to 7:45, and on leaving them with my concerns, I promptly took refuge in the changing rooms for the first time in 40 minutes to gather my thoughts and leave them to it. Well, half an hour later as I reappeared, and large puddles had disappeared to smaller ones or none at all by a colossal effort involving brooms, pitchforks and actual large buckets to take what were fairly large quantitites of water off the pitch. So, after a pre match jog (involving a lot of splashing around in the remaining standing water, and some jumping in puddles to do my bit for dispersing water), we kicked off at 7:45 (after I had changed boots and socks for new ones), in a light rain on what could best be described as a soggy pitch!
What a game it was too, for 70 minutes we had a good spectacle of rugby from the off, with both sides not afraid at times to spread it wide, and Canada not afraid to maul it up the park. Canada had the better of the opening exchanges (at this point they were in white, Cambs in blue, but this was just a brief thing), and opened the scoring after about 5 minutes with an unconverted try. They seemed to still have the edge over Cambs, and while the game was a bit stop start (often to wash mud off people and to wipe it out of eyes), the skills on display were of a high standard for a ball that was starting to go the same colour as the shirts and pitch (brown). Canada extended their lead on 20 minutes with another unconverted try and that was how it remained, 10 - 0 at the well deserved break during which Cambridgeshire went in to change. By this point, I was looking a little bit muddy, up my legs and arms, and was struggling to see my watch. Refereeing became an interesting mix between tryiong to spot the ball, trying to stay upright (and not make a total tit of yourself), while trying to have some empathy with the conditions as they were. Anyway, second half saw Cambs come out much more fired up, and working the ball well. It was Canada however who scored next, with a converted try under the posts from a well worked backs move. Cambridgeshire were not to be outdone though, and some forwards pressure resulted in a penalty kicked to touch, from which the resultant lineout was worked into the backs for a deserved try. After this, Canada started to make their superior fitness pay, with some devastating mauling up the park. Working out who was on what team had long become a near impossibility, with the main method for telling being the slightly differing shirt patterns that were barely visible under the mud. However, the game finished 17 - 5, in what the Canadian skipper described as "one of the most enjoyable games of rugby he's ever played". I came off encased in mud from the shorts downwards, a rather stylish Orange Hampshire shirt with a nice spotted pattern, and some mud covered arms under which there were 2 watches somewhere!
In my short time refereeing, I have done some games in some pretty poor conditions, but I never truly expected after arriving this evening to get a game. Beyond that, when we did get out there, safety was key (and the injuries were minimal, with no particular relevance to the conditions), followed by some sort of equity. The fact that it was described by the county youth chairman as resembling a really structured game of rugby bore testament to the skills of both sides (although handling errors predictably dogged the game). Received lots of positive comments on my refereeing, which was welcomed seeing as to an extent I abandoned trying to fully referee the laws (I did at one point blow for a knock on and started my sentence with "If you are wearing a white shirt, then that's a knock on" at which point we peered closely to see what pattern shirt was under the brownness!) and just tried to help the game flow. I admit I had my doubts how good an idea it was initially, but it was one of those days that for the fact that 45 or so kids had a really enjoyable evening in some of the most awful conditions imaginable and managed to get a safe and often good game of rugby out of it, gave me a really enojyable feeling and a nice reminder of just exactly how the game should be. So, for my first "international" refereeing experience (although I have had some "international" TJing experience), I definitely can say that it was probably some of the worst conditions I have ever officiated in, but possibly one of the most enjoyable, or at least rewarding games, that I have been part of for a long time!
Turned up at Shelford Rugby Club in the torrential rain that had blighted Cambridge all afternoon at 5:50pm (for a 7pm KO) to find no-one in the changing rooms on my arrival. Wondered inside to the clubhouse to find a few players there, and popped outside to find the U16 Lead Coach of the county around looking at the pitch. As we were not on the main pitch, and on the pitch which is generally used for training (as it has lights), the pitch was in a slightly interesting condition to say the least, with a fair amount of standing water and some rather large looking puddles. He was obviously desparately keen for them to play, and I have known him for a while now, but from where we were standing it didn't look promising. Canada were stuck in traffic on the way out of Cambridge, so while they were en route, I agreed to put some tracksuit bottoms and boots on and wander out onto the pitch to see if what looked from the sides as unplayable actually was. This is where is started to get interesting. While a thin layer of water (apart from some large puddles) covered nearly the whole pitch, the ground underneath was nice and firm, a result of the compacting of lots of youth games and training sessions. A trek around the pitch however found the big problem to be the puddles, in places a good 10 metres across and about boot depth. Still keen to play, a few conversations were had between Cambs coaches and youth chairmans, and it was agreed to wait until Canada arrived to make a decision. They turned up about 6:20 and were also keen to play, this being their last game on tour and with having had one game cancelled already, they were happy enough with the pitch. Now this was a major hurdle overcome, I think it was fair to say that nearly any other day the pitch would have been deemed unfit for the purpose of preserving it and for the fact of the amount of water on it. Having been on the periphery of the discussions, I fully outlined my views that I was happy with the ground, and the majority of the standing water (which was soaked up as soon as you put a boot in the ground by it), but that the large masses of water, which numbered a good 8 or so large puddles across the ground had to be drained or cleared. With kick off put back to 7:45, and on leaving them with my concerns, I promptly took refuge in the changing rooms for the first time in 40 minutes to gather my thoughts and leave them to it. Well, half an hour later as I reappeared, and large puddles had disappeared to smaller ones or none at all by a colossal effort involving brooms, pitchforks and actual large buckets to take what were fairly large quantitites of water off the pitch. So, after a pre match jog (involving a lot of splashing around in the remaining standing water, and some jumping in puddles to do my bit for dispersing water), we kicked off at 7:45 (after I had changed boots and socks for new ones), in a light rain on what could best be described as a soggy pitch!
What a game it was too, for 70 minutes we had a good spectacle of rugby from the off, with both sides not afraid at times to spread it wide, and Canada not afraid to maul it up the park. Canada had the better of the opening exchanges (at this point they were in white, Cambs in blue, but this was just a brief thing), and opened the scoring after about 5 minutes with an unconverted try. They seemed to still have the edge over Cambs, and while the game was a bit stop start (often to wash mud off people and to wipe it out of eyes), the skills on display were of a high standard for a ball that was starting to go the same colour as the shirts and pitch (brown). Canada extended their lead on 20 minutes with another unconverted try and that was how it remained, 10 - 0 at the well deserved break during which Cambridgeshire went in to change. By this point, I was looking a little bit muddy, up my legs and arms, and was struggling to see my watch. Refereeing became an interesting mix between tryiong to spot the ball, trying to stay upright (and not make a total tit of yourself), while trying to have some empathy with the conditions as they were. Anyway, second half saw Cambs come out much more fired up, and working the ball well. It was Canada however who scored next, with a converted try under the posts from a well worked backs move. Cambridgeshire were not to be outdone though, and some forwards pressure resulted in a penalty kicked to touch, from which the resultant lineout was worked into the backs for a deserved try. After this, Canada started to make their superior fitness pay, with some devastating mauling up the park. Working out who was on what team had long become a near impossibility, with the main method for telling being the slightly differing shirt patterns that were barely visible under the mud. However, the game finished 17 - 5, in what the Canadian skipper described as "one of the most enjoyable games of rugby he's ever played". I came off encased in mud from the shorts downwards, a rather stylish Orange Hampshire shirt with a nice spotted pattern, and some mud covered arms under which there were 2 watches somewhere!
In my short time refereeing, I have done some games in some pretty poor conditions, but I never truly expected after arriving this evening to get a game. Beyond that, when we did get out there, safety was key (and the injuries were minimal, with no particular relevance to the conditions), followed by some sort of equity. The fact that it was described by the county youth chairman as resembling a really structured game of rugby bore testament to the skills of both sides (although handling errors predictably dogged the game). Received lots of positive comments on my refereeing, which was welcomed seeing as to an extent I abandoned trying to fully referee the laws (I did at one point blow for a knock on and started my sentence with "If you are wearing a white shirt, then that's a knock on" at which point we peered closely to see what pattern shirt was under the brownness!) and just tried to help the game flow. I admit I had my doubts how good an idea it was initially, but it was one of those days that for the fact that 45 or so kids had a really enjoyable evening in some of the most awful conditions imaginable and managed to get a safe and often good game of rugby out of it, gave me a really enojyable feeling and a nice reminder of just exactly how the game should be. So, for my first "international" refereeing experience (although I have had some "international" TJing experience), I definitely can say that it was probably some of the worst conditions I have ever officiated in, but possibly one of the most enjoyable, or at least rewarding games, that I have been part of for a long time!
ex-lucy
Referees in England
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2005
- Messages
- 3,913
- Post Likes
- 0
how strict were you on knock-ons?
i remember reffing a game in similar wet and muddy conditions and decided to be fairly lenient ... e.g. ball slips through the hands hits the chest and bounces forward off chest or straight down ... i said play on ... i interpreted that for a knock on it had to hit hands/ arms and go palpably forwards .. o/wise we would have had a scrumfest .. and on a wet muddly pitch, this wasnt a great idea.
Both teams seemed ok as long as i consistenly applied this interpretation.
I have only done this once ...
i remember reffing a game in similar wet and muddy conditions and decided to be fairly lenient ... e.g. ball slips through the hands hits the chest and bounces forward off chest or straight down ... i said play on ... i interpreted that for a knock on it had to hit hands/ arms and go palpably forwards .. o/wise we would have had a scrumfest .. and on a wet muddly pitch, this wasnt a great idea.
Both teams seemed ok as long as i consistenly applied this interpretation.
I have only done this once ...
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2003
- Messages
- 9,650
- Post Likes
- 7
That was a good read peter, Are you doing Journalism at Uni?
If Economics counts as Journalism! My ability to write the English language is normally debatable, so if it reads well then that is a bonus!
I wasn't too strict on knock ons, if it was off the hand then I gave it, and we did have a number of scrums, however I used the ones which were 50/50 to shout "Backwards" loudly which works as it convinces nearly everyone no matter if it was or not. With it being a game between two good sides though, and one which was competitive throughout, I felt I had to maintain reasonably tight, however I was much more lenient around the tackle on people coming off their feet and tried to only penalise if necessary.
I wasn't too strict on knock ons, if it was off the hand then I gave it, and we did have a number of scrums, however I used the ones which were 50/50 to shout "Backwards" loudly which works as it convinces nearly everyone no matter if it was or not. With it being a game between two good sides though, and one which was competitive throughout, I felt I had to maintain reasonably tight, however I was much more lenient around the tackle on people coming off their feet and tried to only penalise if necessary.
Simon Griffiths
Referees in England
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2004
- Messages
- 1,914
- Post Likes
- 0
Thanks Peter, nice read as Robert says. Glad you managed to get the game in and that despite the conditions everyone had a good evening.
Only ever had any real problems with pitches at two grounds. Stroud RFC was the only place that I've ever refused to start/abandoned a match. The entire pitch (bar the 5m channel in front of the stand) was just mud, about an inch deep with no sign of grass having ever been at the ground! No way, far to dangerous. The other was at Cheltenham RFC, their pitch is usually quite good, but there used to be one patch (same place/size every year) that was about 10m long and 5m wide, that just became a mud bath every winter.
Only ever had any real problems with pitches at two grounds. Stroud RFC was the only place that I've ever refused to start/abandoned a match. The entire pitch (bar the 5m channel in front of the stand) was just mud, about an inch deep with no sign of grass having ever been at the ground! No way, far to dangerous. The other was at Cheltenham RFC, their pitch is usually quite good, but there used to be one patch (same place/size every year) that was about 10m long and 5m wide, that just became a mud bath every winter.
Well, up until yesterday I hadn't refused to start a game on the basis of the ground (well, there was Portsmouth one morning where they had their first frost in donkeys years and it didn't thaw in time, but both coaches agreed without me getting involved), yet the curse of waterlogged pitches struck me again today. Turned up to do first against second in London 4. Drove there in torrential conditions. Arrived to be told we were playing on the 2nd team pitch, as it was in a better state, but that the first team pitch wasn't taking a line on the surface, and while the try line had been done on the second team pitch, it was much the same. Anyway, only got out there 30 mins before KO, the home team were happy with the pitch up to this point, the away team I don't think had seen it. Away side wandered out, I was out before them, pitch seemed soggy but as far as I had gone on it, just about playable. Players who were out early from away side asked what I thought of it and whether we could play, politely told them that was up to their coach and captain. Anyway, coach had a look at it, along with a few senior players and the front row. Took him about 10 - 15 mins, before he stated that he felt it to be unplayable. Asked the home side to consider their response, passing on the concerns of the away side that it wasn't safe to scrum on. Despite a few novel ideas around the problem, they still felt it was playable. So I was forced to make a call. Having been told it was unsafe to scrum on, and having seen it in action 1 on 1 (a rather amusing attempt by 2 props to try and stay on their feet while pushing each other off the ball), and having walked the pitch and especially a strip inside one of the 22s that had standing water across the whole width of the pitch (as well as being soft underfoot), I agreed it was unplayable and that was that. I told them I wouldn't referee it, and they thanked me for offering my judgement, shook hands and we were done for the afternoon.
Now interestingly, the home club 3rd team were playing a merit game against a N3S side 5th team. They thought they were on the same pitch. Now both sides were happy to play, including contested scrums. I had a chat to the referee as he was slightly worried how it looked, with my decision that the pitch was unfit for my game, yet him refereeing a game on the same pitch. Now it is obvious that a Level 8 top of the table clash has totally different dynamic to that game, and the problem area with the pitch (scrums) are a different kettle of fish, but what are people's opinions? Obviously it doesn't look great saying the game is off and then having a game on the pitch, but as myself and the referee of the 3rd team game (who did consult with me on this) agreed, it is a different type of game, both sides were happy and the referee still has the right to say the pitch is no longer fit as soon as the game has kicked off and for the following 80 minutes. Should it have happened (or should the fact it was deemed unfit for the 1st team game meant that the 3rd team shouldn't have been given a choice)? As usual guys, thoughts welcomed, I am happy with the process I went through (as per what the RFU guidelines are, even if some people did think it was essentially my call that the game was off, instead of me withdrawing my services after feeling the pitch was unfit, forcing the game to be postponed as both sides then had to agree not to play), but it seems a bit of an odd one that while I see no problems with this time, I would welcome thoughts for the future.
So, 60 miles round trip to call it off, but such is life. Eastern Counties U17 Cup tomorrow morning for me now, could be a cracker.
Now interestingly, the home club 3rd team were playing a merit game against a N3S side 5th team. They thought they were on the same pitch. Now both sides were happy to play, including contested scrums. I had a chat to the referee as he was slightly worried how it looked, with my decision that the pitch was unfit for my game, yet him refereeing a game on the same pitch. Now it is obvious that a Level 8 top of the table clash has totally different dynamic to that game, and the problem area with the pitch (scrums) are a different kettle of fish, but what are people's opinions? Obviously it doesn't look great saying the game is off and then having a game on the pitch, but as myself and the referee of the 3rd team game (who did consult with me on this) agreed, it is a different type of game, both sides were happy and the referee still has the right to say the pitch is no longer fit as soon as the game has kicked off and for the following 80 minutes. Should it have happened (or should the fact it was deemed unfit for the 1st team game meant that the 3rd team shouldn't have been given a choice)? As usual guys, thoughts welcomed, I am happy with the process I went through (as per what the RFU guidelines are, even if some people did think it was essentially my call that the game was off, instead of me withdrawing my services after feeling the pitch was unfit, forcing the game to be postponed as both sides then had to agree not to play), but it seems a bit of an odd one that while I see no problems with this time, I would welcome thoughts for the future.
So, 60 miles round trip to call it off, but such is life. Eastern Counties U17 Cup tomorrow morning for me now, could be a cracker.
Gareth-Lee Smith
Referees in Wales
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2006
- Messages
- 1,379
- Post Likes
- 2
I'd suggest that the most senior ref's (the one of highest level) judgement on the day should over-rule all other judgements and so if you were higher and decided that conditions were not befitting, then no match should have been played on that pitch. If both refs are of the same level, then the ref officiating the highest level match decides. Of course, consensus between refs could be sought.
Or maybe you guys disagree - I'm not entirely sure on that myself. Maybe each case should be judged on its merits? If the skill levels/speed/power befits the state of the pitch then go for it. I'd say this is the best approach to take.
I'll be going down to referee two matches tomorrow morning - I'm praying that frost doesn't keep one of the pitches out of service. Last week that happened - I had to run a mile down to the local school to referee the second of two matches. It was nice to be told finally... just as I'd blown the final whistle for the first match.
Or maybe you guys disagree - I'm not entirely sure on that myself. Maybe each case should be judged on its merits? If the skill levels/speed/power befits the state of the pitch then go for it. I'd say this is the best approach to take.
I'll be going down to referee two matches tomorrow morning - I'm praying that frost doesn't keep one of the pitches out of service. Last week that happened - I had to run a mile down to the local school to referee the second of two matches. It was nice to be told finally... just as I'd blown the final whistle for the first match.
Simon Griffiths
Referees in England
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2004
- Messages
- 1,914
- Post Likes
- 0
Whilst I agree that the two matches would of course be played differently and at vastly different intensities, an unsafe pitch is an unsafe pitch (to one degree or another).
I'd have no particular complaints with Gareth-Lee's suggestion, but I don't like something being set in stone for situations which could be vary greatly. The higher level ref might just be having a rubbish day and can't be bothered to ref, so in a 50-50 call decided to use the get out clause. However, in a situation such as your's Peter, I'd have thought the 3rd team ref would have taken your lead (especially as he had concerns himself).
I'd have no particular complaints with Gareth-Lee's suggestion, but I don't like something being set in stone for situations which could be vary greatly. The higher level ref might just be having a rubbish day and can't be bothered to ref, so in a 50-50 call decided to use the get out clause. However, in a situation such as your's Peter, I'd have thought the 3rd team ref would have taken your lead (especially as he had concerns himself).
The 3rd team ref seemed happy enough that the pitch was playable at that point (not by a big margin, but still playable). His 2 sides also felt that.
The problem I had is one side felt the pitch was unsafe (and as such, my decision was almost made as such). The fact there was also a strip in one of the 22s that was waterlogged seemed to reinforce the view of the away side.
Interesting comments so far guys, others would be most welcomed.
The problem I had is one side felt the pitch was unsafe (and as such, my decision was almost made as such). The fact there was also a strip in one of the 22s that was waterlogged seemed to reinforce the view of the away side.
Interesting comments so far guys, others would be most welcomed.
Seems to me that the away team in your game deemed it unsafe, and hence you had no choice but to call the game off (only takes 1 captain). Now if both captains are happy to play, only then does the ref's view come into it - if we deem it unsafe at this point, we call it off.
Obviously better to discuss with captains and reach a consensus though.
You sound like you were caught in two minds about the pitch. If both teams had said they were happy, would you have gone ahead? This is the situation the other refs were in with the lower teams.
The other issue here is the lower teams are generally there to play rugby for the fun of it, and if it gets unsafe, are happier to call it off mid game. Also with less riding on the game, and less worried that the pitch will play into their opponents hands. They are also more likely to co-operate with safety calls (quick whistle at rucks in puddles, pulling oppo out of puddles quickly, etc) than the league teams who want the points.
I've been in this position before, and started a game with a lower team when the high team said it was unplayable. It was fine until a huge downpour in the second half, both teams decided that was enough, and decamped to the bar! I did have to blow very quickly at rucks if they occurred in the puddles, but the players co-operated, and everyone was happy to accept that. Would the pitch have been playable for the higher team - maybe, but everyone understood why they didn't play, they wanted to concentrate on playing winning rugby, rather than safe rugby.
My 2p worth.
Obviously better to discuss with captains and reach a consensus though.
You sound like you were caught in two minds about the pitch. If both teams had said they were happy, would you have gone ahead? This is the situation the other refs were in with the lower teams.
The other issue here is the lower teams are generally there to play rugby for the fun of it, and if it gets unsafe, are happier to call it off mid game. Also with less riding on the game, and less worried that the pitch will play into their opponents hands. They are also more likely to co-operate with safety calls (quick whistle at rucks in puddles, pulling oppo out of puddles quickly, etc) than the league teams who want the points.
I've been in this position before, and started a game with a lower team when the high team said it was unplayable. It was fine until a huge downpour in the second half, both teams decided that was enough, and decamped to the bar! I did have to blow very quickly at rucks if they occurred in the puddles, but the players co-operated, and everyone was happy to accept that. Would the pitch have been playable for the higher team - maybe, but everyone understood why they didn't play, they wanted to concentrate on playing winning rugby, rather than safe rugby.
My 2p worth.
That's pretty much how I saw it and what myself and the 3rd team referee agreed on. After all, we only get a say if they disagree, and even then we only call the match off as such if we start the game, before that it is by the two sides agreeing (even if this is forced by you saying the pitch is unfit and removing your services from the game).
Would I have started if they said they were happy? Honest answer is yes, I had some reservations but I would have been willing if they both stated beforehand that they felt the pitch safe and playable, and then they would have had to adjust to my refereeing of the game for the conditions. If though it started to become unsafe or farcical, then I believe I would have pulled the plug (though beyond the statement that I would have started, adjusted my refereeing slightly but not drastically so that I was refereeing it in a way that was not my normal game, the rest is speculation and what ifs!).
ex-lucy
Referees in England
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2005
- Messages
- 3,913
- Post Likes
- 0
i have played at SW with surface water and scrummaged ok.. the pitch must lie low just there... but it must have been quite bad on Sat'day for no purchase.
I had a National Colts Cup match on Sunday.
The first thing i did, when i got there 1 hr before kick offf, was ask the visitors' coaches to check the pitch for safety and also have a look at all the other nearby pitches.
At 12:30, 30 mins before kick off, with 1st xv pitch designated there was going to be no match. There was too much surface water on the pitch, no markings and lightning going off nearby. Scrummaging would have been dangerous.
But there are 4 pitches at Barnet RFC, so i asked the visitors' coach to check the other pitches for an alternative and asked the Barnet coaching staff to get some pitch forks to help with drainage. Barking came back and said they were unhappy with all the pitches but they had a backlog of fixtures and the next round for this cup was in 2 Sundays time. The only pitch with little or no surface water was the far right pitch near the trees and a brook. But a u17s match was in progress and the middle of the pitch was very very muddy. The wings and such were ok for scrummaging IMHO. Luckily at 12:45 the rain stopped and some blue sky and sun was seen.
Barking agreed to play on the muddy pitch.
So, i put back the kick off 20 mins to allow the u17s match to finish and to allow some drying out and re-evaluation.
We kicked off eventually.
If the Barking coach had said 'no' to playing on the muddy pitch, then i would have agreed with him and called it off. Simple as that. But he eventually agreed with me about the pitch and my promise of being erring on the side of safety in breakdowns etc.
luckily (thanks to ST's prompting) i had a set of rules and i made both sets of coaches aware of rules for abandonment and draws etc, as i would probably abandon the match if we got any more rain.
The second half was messy. Muddy and slippery and the middle of the pitch was a quagmire.
I refereed by allowing lots of advantage to ensure fewer scrums and when we did have a scrum i moved it over to a place where there was some solid ground for stud purchase. Barnet tackled like demons. Barnet 9 and 10 had cracking matches. But Barking were their own worst enemies by continuing to give away pens and losing hard won yardage e.g. they won a maul on their own line, kicked the ball but the centres (under their own posts) were ahead of the kicker and continued to chase after the ball even with me shouting "wait red" etc etc ...
I had a National Colts Cup match on Sunday.
The first thing i did, when i got there 1 hr before kick offf, was ask the visitors' coaches to check the pitch for safety and also have a look at all the other nearby pitches.
At 12:30, 30 mins before kick off, with 1st xv pitch designated there was going to be no match. There was too much surface water on the pitch, no markings and lightning going off nearby. Scrummaging would have been dangerous.
But there are 4 pitches at Barnet RFC, so i asked the visitors' coach to check the other pitches for an alternative and asked the Barnet coaching staff to get some pitch forks to help with drainage. Barking came back and said they were unhappy with all the pitches but they had a backlog of fixtures and the next round for this cup was in 2 Sundays time. The only pitch with little or no surface water was the far right pitch near the trees and a brook. But a u17s match was in progress and the middle of the pitch was very very muddy. The wings and such were ok for scrummaging IMHO. Luckily at 12:45 the rain stopped and some blue sky and sun was seen.
Barking agreed to play on the muddy pitch.
So, i put back the kick off 20 mins to allow the u17s match to finish and to allow some drying out and re-evaluation.
We kicked off eventually.
If the Barking coach had said 'no' to playing on the muddy pitch, then i would have agreed with him and called it off. Simple as that. But he eventually agreed with me about the pitch and my promise of being erring on the side of safety in breakdowns etc.
luckily (thanks to ST's prompting) i had a set of rules and i made both sets of coaches aware of rules for abandonment and draws etc, as i would probably abandon the match if we got any more rain.
The second half was messy. Muddy and slippery and the middle of the pitch was a quagmire.
I refereed by allowing lots of advantage to ensure fewer scrums and when we did have a scrum i moved it over to a place where there was some solid ground for stud purchase. Barnet tackled like demons. Barnet 9 and 10 had cracking matches. But Barking were their own worst enemies by continuing to give away pens and losing hard won yardage e.g. they won a maul on their own line, kicked the ball but the centres (under their own posts) were ahead of the kicker and continued to chase after the ball even with me shouting "wait red" etc etc ...
In a sense I have no problem with you being efficient and helpful, but I still do not see why the referee should be responsible for what to me is obviously the coach's/captain's job: knowing the regulations of the competition they are playing in.ex-lucy said:
The catch is that the more helpful you are, the more they will not bother.