Can you push the ball forward to score a try?

[ChrisR]

Under tackle law 15.5(g) a tackled player near the goal line may "reach out and ground the ball ...... to score a try ..."

Could that include pushing the ball forward on the ground? Under 15.5(c) a tackled player may "release the ball by pushing it along the in any direction except forward, ..."

Seems like (g) could be an exception to (c). The penalty for 'pushing' instead of 'placing' is severe. Instead of scoring a try you give up a PK for a rather innocuous act.

 

[pwhaling]

No. That would be a knock on.

 

[OB..]

Under tackle law 15.5(g) a tackled player near the goal line may "reach out and ground the ball ...... to score a try ..."

Could that include pushing the ball forward on the ground? Under 15.5(c) a tackled player may "release the ball by pushing it along the in any direction except forward, ..."

Seems like (g) could be an exception to (c). The penalty for 'pushing' instead of 'placing' is severe. Instead of scoring a try you give up a PK for a rather innocuous act.

Nonetheless it is illegal. If the player does not have sufficient control to lift and place the ball, he must accept that he cannot push it forward.

 

[Dickie E]

No. That would be a knock on.

Agree. There is no way I would penalise it.

 

[Balones]

What would you do if he dragged the ball over the line?

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

I thought Aaron Cruden pushed the ball over/onto the line for his try against England. Imagine Hansen's face if a PK had been awarded to England after the TMO review! :biggrin:

 

[Browner]

Its sometimes mentioned that "convention" has overtaken law in how the game is played,

With that in mind, on this subject I believe that convention is/has being established by the elite Slow mo TMO rv system , in that 'pushing forward' is operating as an EXCEPTION to law, IF it is done in the act of scoring a try ( in a single continuous motion)

In fact I'd suggest to World Rugby that this exception should be written into Law.

I doubt we'll ever see a top grade televised match where someone pushing the ball forward to score a try is then penalised by PK.

 

[The Fat]

Illegal, but again I cite Sam Warburton. Result? Try awarded. Grrrrrr!!!

 

[ChrisR]

No. That would be a knock on.

Couldn't be a 'knock-on' as the ball wouldn't have left control of the player.

Is the PK sanction in 15.5(c) for pushing the ball forward or for not releasing immediately? Or both?

 

[crossref]

I don't think Cruden try was correct. But I do admit to an impartial view

 

[ChrisR]

From Browner: "In fact I'd suggest to World Rugby that this exception should be written into Law."

I'd go one step further and remove the "except forward" restriction. Why would one ever push the ball forward except to score a try?

Has anyone ever called this?

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

I don't think Cruden try was correct. But I do admit to an impartial view

Short of the line or pushing the ball?

 

[Ian_Cook]

IMO the restriction on the tackled player pushing the ball forward after being brought to ground is because ultimately that player will have to release the ball, and it would technically become a knock-on at that point. However, a tackled player pushing the ball forward to the goal line score a try makes the ball dead when the ball touches the goal-line, therefore it cannot be a knock-on.

As regards the Cruden try, NO was right there and saw him push the ball onto the line so he must have deemed that acceptable, and at no point was the ball separated from Cruden's hands, so it was not a knock on.

 

[Phil E]

I'm

However, a tackled player pushing the ball forward to the goal line score a try makes the ball dead when the ball touches the goal-line, therefore it cannot be a knock-on.

So if I knock on into touch, making the ball dead, it's not a knock on?

 

[crossref]

I don't think Cruden try was correct. But I do admit to an impartial view

Short of the line or pushing the ball?

Pushing the ball over the line, which seems to me to be illegal.

 

[Taff]

I assume the OP means "pushing" the ball while still holding it.

If he was just to push it forward and let it go, then obviously it's a knock-on. If he was still holding the ball and slid it onto the try line, that would be OK surely? From memory Sam Warburton scored a try doing something similar.

 

[Ian_Cook]

I'm

So if I knock on into touch, making the ball dead, it's not a knock on?

Logical fallacy. The laws that apply to the touchline, touch in goal and dead ball lines do not apply to the goal-line. However, to answer your question as if it were not a logical fallacy...

1. You lose control of the ball before it crosses the touchline so it is a knock-on

2. The ball is not dead when it goes into touch in the same sense that it is dead if grounded on or over the goal-line by an attacking player; a ball in touch can be immediately thrown back into play, whereas a ball grounded on or over the goal-line by an attacker cannot be played back into play without the intervention of the referee who must decide how play will recommence; try and conversion attempt, 22 dropout, 5m scrum attacking feed, 5m scrum defending feed, or PK.

3. A ball intentionally pushed onto the touchline (the logical equivalent of pushing the ball onto the goal-line), will most likely be a PK.

We have two examples now in elite rugby where players have pushed the ball onto the goal-line and tries have been awarded; Sam Warburton for Wales v Australia, and Aaron Cruden for New Zealand v England. Both decisions were non-controversial at the time, the referees in both cases clearly saw the incidents and ruled them as tries, and this was not called into question by iRB or anyone involved in the games.

I have also heard the argument from a referee that pushing the ball forward refers only to a player not holding the ball, and if a player is holding the ball then pushing forward and placing forward are the same thing.

I can easily imagine how this might work.

 

[crossref]

Ian I think you are probably right insomuch as those two tries have created a powerful precedent
If I had had one of those incidents in a game last season I would have said no try. If it happens to me next week I would likely follow the examples given and award it.
Thus do the Laws develop over time