Choke tackle

[Browner]

You are all refering to the Grapple Tackle, which while someway legal or permitted in RL it should be not in RU.

Why not?

 

[MrQeu]

Why not?

This are Grapple tackles

This a Choke tackle

If a choke tackle morphs into a grapple tackle, just whistle, stop the play and deliver the appropiate sanction

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

James Haskell thinks it's legal to grab people around the neck!!!
To be fair he's probably been misquoted but hea's quoted as saying it's a rule!!
As people have said, anyone who grabs somebody by the head or neck in the tackle/ maul area in my games, at the very least I shout "off his neck" and if no response. penalty, Simple.

This is on BBC website.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31638558

Six Nations: England's James Haskell defends choke tackle


The choke tackle is a "useful tool" but must be done at the right time, England flanker James Haskell says.
A choke tackle is when a defending player holds an attacker off the ground by wrapping an arm around his neck and shoulders.
Wales defence coach Shaun Edwards has called the technique "very dangerous" and a "blight on the game".
But Haskell, 29, said: "I'm not going to not do it because if I don't do it, somebody's going to do it to me."
Speaking before Sunday's Six Nations match against Ireland in Dublin, Haskell added: "I know Shaun Edwards has come out saying it should be banned and he knows what he's talking about, but while it's a rule it's a rule.
"I don't think it's a game-changer and it won't decide Sunday's game, but it is a useful tool and while it is a rule you have to be good at it."

 

[Browner]

Oh I see MrQue....

In which case this statement of yours

You are all refering to the Grapple Tackle, which while someway legal or permitted in RL it should be not in RU.

was inaccurate, I wasn't picturing those examples, instead I was the Irish example picture.

I've never recognised those neck wrenching pictures as a 'choke tackle' far from it. Having seen them (thanks) then, IMO, the description 'Choking' should replace 'grapple' in Rugbrawl league terminology, as its more accurate!!!

 

[Browner]

James Haskell thinks it's legal to grab people around the neck!!!
To be fair he's probably been misquoted but hea's quoted as saying it's a rule!!
As people have said, anyone who grabs somebody by the head or neck in the tackle/ maul area in my games, at the very least I shout "off his neck" and if no response. penalty, Simple.

This is on BBC website.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31638558

Six Nations: England's James Haskell defends choke tackle


The choke tackle is a "useful tool" but must be done at the right time, England flanker James Haskell says.
A choke tackle is when a defending player holds an attacker off the ground by wrapping an arm around his neck and shoulders.
Wales defence coach Shaun Edwards has called the technique "very dangerous" and a "blight on the game".
But Haskell, 29, said: "I'm not going to not do it because if I don't do it, somebody's going to do it to me."
Speaking before Sunday's Six Nations match against Ireland in Dublin, Haskell added: "I know Shaun Edwards has come out saying it should be banned and he knows what he's talking about, but while it's a rule it's a rule.
"I don't think it's a game-changer and it won't decide Sunday's game, but it is a useful tool and while it is a rule you have to be good at it."

No BBC - that description is wholly unhelpful.

It doesnt help the myth either when the BBC choose such a poor example picture to supposedly demonstrate what they are trying to refer to !

Marks out of ten for this ' information'. 1/10 , awarded only for attempting to answer the question !

 

[didds]

Well, I may as well chuck my 2p in.

To me I am quite happy using "choke" in both contexts.

An arm around a neck is a choke, or choking the player.

When players A,B,C and D, stifle player X from releasing the ball when caught upright, I understand that "choke" in this regard means that the ball is not able to be released.

I can also see that during this version of a "choke tackle" sometimes arms get wrapped around necks and hands over faces. Mr O'Connell I am looking at you, but to be fair you are not alone by a very long chalk. That may have become PART of a "choke tackle" - but its not a "choke tackle" in itself. Take B,C,D out of the equation and with A with arms wrapped round a neck etc and you've got dangerous play, or if you prefer a high tackle using choking. Which is what incidentally that middle picture above is - its a high tackle. No need to call it anything else.

Its really not very difficult.

didds

 

[Pegleg]

Pegleg,
I'd say that in most of my matches one of the earliest PK's I invariably give is for " contacting the neck is too high " loud and clear signalling for opponents to hear also, it sets a clear benchmark for the rest of the fixture.

Rarely get any problems after that, and escalation is uncomplained at.

Good on you. Sadly you're not a "typical" ref. I think that is fair to say.

 

[colesy]

I'm struggling to see how this has become a contentious issue. In the context of the tackling technique which has become known as the choke tackle, it's completely clear that this refers to the ball being choked. I would expect any ref to penalise a choke (as defined in conventional terms) around the neck and I don't think it matters much as to whether you call it a high tackle or dangerous play; either would be appropriate and an easy sell.

 

[FightOrFlight]

Given the fact this has been pioneered in Ireland it is a hot issue and we get a lot of advice and feedback from the Union on it.

In the Provincial Academies(especially Leinster) and at age grade it is very much a coached tactic. If the defender hits and holds a guy up in a tackle he or a close tackler assist will call CHOKE CHOKE CHOKE and the surrounding players will engage in a certain way so as to lock the ball carrier upright and prevent the ball coming back. The main components here will be:

1) Initial "tackler"
2) His support man(grabs on and holds up too)
3) Ball man(the player who tries get opposition side and locks the ball in)

Players will hunt in packs for this as you see at International level. Example being O'Brien, Healy and Heaslip hunting for them together knowing well that is what they want to do.

The feedback we get actually has very little to do with the "grapple" or attempt to remove the head of the ball carrier. The danger issues we see mostly come from the ball carrier's team. The above mentioned 3(ball man) will be opposition side of the choke most likely with his back to the opposition. What we see is the ball carrier's team launching themselves sometimes with no arms in to the back of this player to try and dislodge him. If they get him off there is a good chance they can clear the other 2 off if they get to ground. These players often join by running full tilt in and trying to ram the defenders off the choke. This can be very dangerous to all involved.
I had a 16 yo knocked totally out cold by a head to head flying headbutt joining a choke maul.

You then have the issues of these flying joins when the maul goes down and this often is where the serious no arms foul play comes in. Stamping is also an issue.

For the most part the danger comes from the ball carrier's team.

Regardless Shaun Edwards is just having a little cry because he doesnt know how to counter Ireland's tactic and wants to try get it refereed differently.

 

[ChrisR]

Players will hunt in packs for this as you see at International level. Example being O'Brien, Healy and Heaslip hunting for them together knowing well that is what they want to do.

I think that if I was the BC and I saw those three heading my way I'd be inclined to move the ball elsewhere.

 

[Taff]

... Regardless Shaun Edwards is just having a little cry because he doesnt know how to counter Ireland's tactic and wants to try get it refereed differently.

I suggest either don't form a ruck .. or use the tactic yourself.

Ireland may have perfected it, but they haven't got a monopoly on it. :knuppel2:

 

[Pegleg]

What's it got to do with a ruck? How can you "choke" a ball carrier when there is no a ball carrier?

 

[Taff]

What's it got to do with a ruck? How can you "choke" a ball carrier when there is no a ball carrier?

Sod all to do with the ruck. Sorry, I meant to say "maul".

 

[Pinky]

Sod all to do with the ruck. Sorry, I meant to say "maul".

Maul for turnover at the scrum, but equally if the ball carrier side does not engage it is likley that the opposition will be going forward by the time the thing falls over and so they will get the put in to the scrum anyway. But that is not alway refereed in accordance with law.

 

[FightOrFlight]

Maul for turnover at the scrum, but equally if the ball carrier side does not engage it is likley that the opposition will be going forward by the time the thing falls over and so they will get the put in to the scrum anyway. But that is not alway refereed in accordance with law.

It's probably more likely the tacklers or defenders will rip the ball and have it anyway if the attacking players do not engage.

 

[L'irlandais]

Choke tackle analysis by Telegraph's Will Greenwood.

Nothing illegal or dangerous about the Irish national team's tactic. It's just old hat now, 2011.
Donncha O'Callaghan who perfected the tactic, no longer plays at International level.