[Law] Choke 'Tackle'

[L'irlandais]

If everyone is on their feet (and it's not a maul) how can you call it unplayable...it's open play...you just have to leave them to sort it out for themselves and see what develops. I see no justification for blowing up.

Nine times out of ten, one of the ball carriers teammates will get involved with zero hesitation, then it has become a maul.

If the ball remains unplayable then Law 16.17 applies thereafter, scrum to the defenders.

 

[chbg]

Thank you for the convention consensus (+ a couple of side-tracks). Certainly in my games the teams are not so coordinated as the professionals to support the BC and turn it into a maul. But I agree that it is not a maul until the referee has called it, so allowing it to remain a tackle going to ground, with the ball then required to be made available. I like Dickie's "no maul, play on" call in the event that the unsupported BC does not get his knee+ to ground.

Under 13.1 the BC can get a knee to ground then stand up again, then get his knee to ground the stand up then … and all the time remaining legal! Now that's Chopperesque!

I shall continue to referee it as we have all been doing so.

 

[Dickie E]

Nine times out of ten, one of the ball carriers teammates will get involved with zero hesitation, then it has become a maul.
If the ball remains unplayable then Law 16.17 applies thereafter, scrum to the defenders.

One thing to be mindful of is, once the players realise a turnover scrum is imminent, there is a propensity to enter the maul illegally. For example, in the film clip at time 3:13, Red 19, Blue 21 & Blue 7 (although it looks as though the ref is just keen to get the game finished).

 

[Ian_Cook]

Nine times out of ten, one of the ball carriers teammates will get involved with zero hesitation, then it has become a maul.

If the ball remains unplayable then Law 16.17 applies thereafter, scrum to the defenders.

Interesting that the video purporting to be about "The Art of the Choke Tackle" shows a frame in which a Green player has his arm around the neck of a Gold player in a seatbelt tackle - an action for which I would penalise the Green player.

 

[Arabcheif]

Thank you for the convention consensus (+ a couple of side-tracks). Certainly in my games the teams are not so coordinated as the professionals to support the BC and turn it into a maul. But I agree that it is not a maul until the referee has called it, so allowing it to remain a tackle going to ground, with the ball then required to be made available. I like Dickie's "no maul, play on" call in the event that the unsupported BC does not get his knee+ to ground.

Under 13.1 the BC can get a knee to ground then stand up again, then get his knee to ground the stand up then … and all the time remaining legal! Now that's Chopperesque!

I shall continue to referee it as we have all been doing so.

Not sure if 13.1 would apply here. Reason being the BC has the ball already, 13.1 is for players going to the ground to gather it, so they can get up with the ball. Not players in possession, who go to ground while being tackled.

 

[chbg]

Not sure if 13.1 would apply here. Reason being the BC has the ball already, 13.1 is for players going to the ground to gather it, so they can get up with the ball. Not players in possession, who go to ground while being tackled.

Text of 13.1 is: "Players, who go to ground to gather the ball or who go to ground with the ball, …" Emphasis not required!

 

[Arabcheif]

Text of 13.1 is: "Players, who go to ground to gather the ball or who go to ground with the ball, …" Emphasis not required!

Go to ground with the ball - this is for a player who is either not held in a tackle or slips or ends up on the ground under their own steam. What's happening is a tackle situation where the player is attempting to get to the ground to complete the tackle. Doesn't matter if the BC is brought to ground or goes to ground, the important factor I'd suggest is they are being held while going to ground.

 

[L'irlandais]

Interesting that the video purporting to be about "The Art of the Choke Tackle" shows a frame in which a Green player has his arm around the neck of a Gold player in a seatbelt tackle - an action for which I would penalise the Green player.

Spot on, a clear penalty offense. If I recall rightly Ireland won the turnover, perhaps the referee wasn’t well positioned to see it. You should realize this is a YouTube compilation video, so not an information video from the IRFU, or anything of the sort.

Irish choke tackles aren’t the problem despite the unfortunate name.

The offending player looks like Jamis Heaslip, and I thought it was the famous 2011 RWC Pool win over the Wallabies, where Green won 5 turnovers from the tactic. Write-up on Tactical win. Not sure about the jerseys though, they look too modern for it to be 2011.

Strike that, it was the Guinness Autumn International series 2014

 

[L'irlandais]

Not two minutes into the match. (3 minutes 50 seconds into this clip