Coach cross at half time

Taffy


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Wow. Keep this going guys. Some brilliant suggestions. All so helpful and yes, of course the reaction is always coloured by the manner of the approach.

I'm still a novice, about 65 matches in, but have never had this before and so was ill prepared.

I think you probably need to make a mistake and have a learning curve on most of these issues and then you have the tools in the box for next time.

I remember my second match when the scrum half took a quick tap from about 1 metre and scored and I provided a colourful and happy whistle. Tell you what, that's never happened again........
 

Adam


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Crossref is perhaps more sanguine about coach discussions than I am - or perhaps he just gets a better class of coach in London. A coach who asks a constructive question ("is there anything I need to draw to my team's attention ref?) is going to get a constructive answer, but when a guy starts off with "what the f&*k is going on with all penalties, ref?" then he's not going to be satisfied with any answer other than the one he's never going to get: "I got them al wrong, and I'm so sorry. I know it looks like I'm being biased against you, but I promise I'll even it up in the next half".

Given that no answer will satisfy, any engagement with the coach at this point is going to be unsatisfactory. At best you'll get into a debate about each decision, trying to justify decisions that have been and gone, when you need to be focusing on what you'll do next half. I believe that at higher levels it is considered inappropriate for a coach to speak to the ref at half time, and I see that as good practice. They are trying to influence you, and neither you nor the game are well served by changing your approach half way through the match.

So I think Taffy's approach of trying to close down the coach was justifiable. Given time, he'll learn more effective ways of doing that - as with so much of the game, it is man management. And as with so much man management, the realisation of the best way to handle it usually reveals itself several moments after the last opportunity to use it has just passed.

That's got to be worth a go at some point, if only to see the reaction it would get!
 

andyscott


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Never speak to a coach at half time.

Ref can I have a word, err no see me 30 mins after the game :)

Then just walk away from the teams, head to changing rooms etc.

If he continues Red card the little twat.

The half time 'chat' the coach wants will very rarely be of any use.
 

crossref


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Andy you are operating in a different world. My half time is spent on the touchline, the teams huddled on the pitch. It lasts four or five minutes. On a good day a friendly spectator chats to me :)
 

andyscott


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Andy you are operating in a different world. My half time is spent on the touchline, the teams huddled on the pitch. It lasts four or five minutes. On a good day a friendly spectator chats to me :)

I still referee in that environment.

But just run under the sticks, stretch off, do not put yourself in the way for a confrontation.
 

WombleRef


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I'd second most of what FF says.

A different way to look at it is that aggressive doesn't have to be avoided - sometimes a judicious word can deflate the aggression bubble. I think deflecting to the captain can serve sometimes as exacerbating factor. If he's asking questions, genuinely seeking answers, you're better off trying to handle him; if his language is more statement than question, then I think you consider your options.

What you DO have to do is control the dynamic. "OK Coach, I'm going to tell you what I've seen and what I've told your captain, OK? Then I'm going to go get some water. Well, the first PK...." Open hands, no crossed arms. If you really need the time to think, get your water and drink whilst you ruminate.

To answer Crossref's #2, I always (on the rare occasion it happens) try to speak to the angry coach at half time. If nothing else, it gives me a better chance of having a calmer coach for the second half, and the players not descending to his level.

I am quite similar.
I also will talk to both Captains at half-time if there are any trends that popped up towards the end of the half that they could perhaps be mindful to avoid... at my level that is usually involving the phrase 'as the half went on and your players got tired, the tackles started to get higher, can we try and get them lower again?'
 

Taffy


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From my limited experience I feel that the respect the ref gets probably goes up several notches with the ref level. You've got to have a bit of a scrap for your respect and earn it on the field at Level 11. A lot of this sort of thing is subtle intimidation designed to get a result.......but when running touch I have seen it at a higher level (Level 5) as well.
 

Browner

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at my level that is usually involving the phrase 'as the half went on and your players got tired, the tackles started to get higher, can we try and get them lower again?'

sorry wombly , but what does this mean????

They are either high/dangerous,
or they're not , therefore legal.

That kind of discussion should never happen IMO.
 

Phil E


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Andy you are operating in a different world. My half time is spent on the touchline, the teams huddled on the pitch. It lasts four or five minutes. On a good day a friendly spectator chats to me :)

Get my drink, pull my socks up, tuck my shirt in, tot up the first half score.
Then make use of the downtime by having a quick word with each Captain....what I need them to work on in the second half as part of our contract as a team.
 

WombleRef


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sorry wombly , but what does this mean????

They are either high/dangerous,
or they're not , therefore legal.

That kind of discussion should never happen IMO.

The kind of tackle that is border line. You know those ones around the nipples that could easily slip up. That I never ever did as a player :redface:

Even in the start of game today - first half - around the legs. Last five of the half - around the waist. By minute 60 they were getting high. So I managed it by asking both captains to tell players to lower their tackles, before I had to start penalising them. As it happens - last 10 they went straight back up but that was because Preston were chucking the kitchen sink at West Park.

I think it's called proactive management Browner.
 

Browner

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The kind of tackle that is border line. You know those ones around the nipples that could easily slip up. That I never ever did as a player :redface:

Even in the start of game today - first half - around the legs. Last five of the half - around the waist. By minute 60 they were getting high. So I managed it by asking both captains to tell players to lower their tackles, before I had to start penalising them. As it happens - last 10 they went straight back up but that was because Preston were chucking the kitchen sink at West Park.

I think it's called proactive management Browner.

Nipples, borderline? Really???

PM overkill IMO matey, as you found out, what do you do if the don't lower their legal tackles..... Ans=nothing :mad:

Then better if you start by having a chat after the first legal tackle around the ankles !!!(sarc) !! Why involve yourself with a subject where they aren't offending, what about their next 'not' offside, or the next 'not' crooked feed, or the next ' not' late hit , im not a fan of unnecessary preventative diatribe

Or, capt ...."your tackles remain legal, until they change from what they have been, to something that they currently are not, clear?, please tell your players"

"Lads ref says we're defending well" ....

chorus, "gee, thanks sir - appreciated"
 
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Taffy


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Having thought further on it, I think going to the coach at half time is inviting a problem. I remember reading somewhere (probably on this forum) that if you speak to any spectator at half time, make sure it is about something to that is NOT to do with the game. The weather, the price of bananas...........anything, but the game. Think that is sound.
 

Nigib


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If the coach is the problem (for example, wanting to 'discuss' a particular decision or approach that you took in the first half, and ignoring your instruction that you will happily chat in the bar about afterwards) then pass it on to someone else. Walk away from him, call the captain over, and advise that he needs to sort the coach out to avoid any sanction. Then get on with drink, half-time massage from entourage, or even chat with captains about what you'd like them to do in the second half (depending, or not, on level).
 

OB..


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im not a fan of unnecessary preventative diatribe
... and I'm not a fan of attacking a fellow referee with OTT heavy sarcasm.Would you appreciate that sort of comment from an assessor?
 

crossref


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Having thought further on it, I think going to the coach at half time is inviting a problem. .

I wouldn't normally ever go and speak to a coach at half time. We were talking earlier about responding to coaches who come to me, which is a different.
 

ChrisR

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OK, here's my account of a half-time incident from several years ago as the coach of a men's grass roots team.

In the first half the ops box kicked over the top of their lineout three times. Each time their lineout forwards advanced at pace before they could be put on-sides. It was clearly a deliberate strategy and was not called by the referee. Needless to say it caused us problems.

At halftime I passed my observations to the our captain (who then conducts the halftime brief) and strolled across the pitch to where the referee was engaged in a chat with the ops coach.

"Excuse me", says I, "May I have a word?"
"No!", says the referee.
As the ops coach was still there I turn to him and say: "On your box kicks your lineout forwards are advancing before being put on-sides"
"I will not allow coaches to discuss the laws at half-time in my game!" buts in the referee.
I say nothing and return to my sideline.

How much respect do you think I have for that individual?
 

Browner

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... and I'm not a fan of attacking a fellow referee with OTT heavy sarcasm.Would you appreciate that sort of comment from an assessor?

Thats an interesting choice of wording OB, as I'm not "attacking" Taffy, far from it.
IF he took it that way then he shouldn't, he'll appreciate your mothering though ..xx

Sure a bit of sarc ( but nothing to spit a dummy out over) anyway, I replied to Taffy.

But hey ho, if it works for him, then that's fine by me.
 

Browner

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Would you appreciate that sort of comment from an assessor?

But Im not an assessor, nor am I purporting to be Taffy's. However, i wouldn't mind (in the context of discussion) , as long as the assessor was happy to accept my reciprocate response. Not all referees are as tender as others.

Crikey imagine if I said he was "Fxxxxg horrendous"!!!!!!!!!!

One assessor steadfastly told me Id failed to notice the hookers foot 6 inches over the touchline as he threw in, I thought he was OTT pedantic on that issue , and happy said so, he didn't choke on his 'half of mild' :cool:
 

WombleRef


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Nipples, borderline? Really???

PM overkill IMO matey, as you found out, what do you do if the don't lower their legal tackles..... Ans=nothing :mad:

Then better if you start by having a chat after the first legal tackle around the ankles !!!(sarc) !! Why involve yourself with a subject where they aren't offending, what about their next 'not' offside, or the next 'not' crooked feed, or the next ' not' late hit , im not a fan of unnecessary preventative diatribe

Or, capt ...."your tackles remain legal, until they change from what they have been, to something that they currently are not, clear?, please tell your players"

"Lads ref says we're defending well" ....

chorus, "gee, thanks sir - appreciated"

Browner if you are ever in the area I would love to have you come watch one of my games with me on the mike. Let's see what you think then/ I'm never gonna be the best referee but I try and manage and facilitate the best game I can. It is a hobby I enjoy and allow me to dominate a life that is already hectic with university work, pretty much running a Cub Section and holding down 2 other jobs and my current target is to be given an RFU League 1st XV game v 1st XV game by the middle of next season (so Level 8/9).

I referee how I referee. I try and keep the Captains on my side and that means I talk to them. I will joke with the scrum and I will 'chat' to players during 'off' time. I made a joke on Sunday after having to stop the game for getting a load of mud in my eye about how I definitely only have 'one-eye' now. It makes me seem human. It keeps them onside and it works for me. At the age of 19 I can either be super pedantic or Charm and Disarm. At the moment Charm works.

... and I'm not a fan of attacking a fellow referee with OTT heavy sarcasm.Would you appreciate that sort of comment from an assessor?

QB - thank you for defending me but I've just started to ignore him when he goes off on one.
 
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