[Ruck] competition in all areas

[mugsey]

The tackle occurs, first attacking player arrives, and goes over the ball and leans on his hands, or grabs hold of the tackled player. This is to shield the ball, and prevent competition at the ruck that forms. When I started refereeing 10 years ago, it was very clear that we should not be watching the top flight referees on TV as they had agreed with coaches etc. that they would referee to make the game as entertaining as possible. Its seems that this is to prioritise the attacking team, and not penalising them for coming in at the side, or leaning over the ball.

Going over the ball and leaning on the ground or tackled player with your shoulder I do see being penalised.

If the defending side sees that rucks are not worth competing in as the ball is effectively being sealed off, then they will commit less players to it, and there will not be so much open space once the ball has come out. So I feel that by not penalising players protecting the ball, the game becomes less entertaining not more.

I know that you have to differentiate between the tackle and the ruck, but at lower levels can anyone reassure me that I am not being too harsh with players going to ground around the tackle and/or the following ruck in attack or defence?

See 16.2.a, anyone ever free kicked for this? I did once, and players and spectators thought I was on the wrong pitch!

I feel confident in backing up my decision with the law book, but would like some reassurance that I am not alone on this particular issue.

 

[Dickie E]

The tackle occurs, first attacking player arrives, and goes over the ball and leans on his hands, or grabs hold of the tackled player. This is to shield the ball, and prevent competition at the ruck that forms.

I am generally OK if the arriving team mate grabs hold of the tackled player's jumper provided 1. he has his head up and 2. if cleaned out he doesn't use the mass/inertia of the tackled player as ballast

If the defending side sees that rucks are not worth competing in as the ball is effectively being sealed off, then they will commit less players to it, and there will not be so much open space once the ball has come out. So I feel that by not penalising players protecting the ball, the game becomes less entertaining not more.

It is a fine balance. Previous interpretations have been more generous to the defending team and, guess what, the propensity for the attacking team to take the ball into contact has been reduced, more kicking in general play and, again, less entertaining rugby.

What is the right balance? Attacking team to retain ball at the breakdown 85% of time?

As to 16.2(a). Don't see that one given too often (ever). Did you ping the jackler? If they go off their feet will usually be a PK given under 16.2(d).

 

[Decorily]

........goes over the ball and leans on his hands, or grabs hold of the tackled player.[/QUOTE]
Are these not two different scanaries?

 

[Dickie E]

........goes over the ball and leans on his hands, or grabs hold of the tackled player.

Are these not two different scanaries?[/QUOTE]

1 scenario. Sealing off by either going past tackled player and putting hands on ground or leaning on/grasping tackled player

 

[Decorily]

But Dickle E 'leaning on 'and 'grasping' are surely two different scenarios. 1 implies putting weight on, meaning probably off feet , while the other can reasonably be done while still supporting ones own weight and staying on feet.

 

[Dickie E]

But Dickle E 'leaning on 'and 'grasping' are surely two different scenarios. 1 implies putting weight on, meaning probably off feet , while the other can reasonably be done while still supporting ones own weight and staying on feet.

Yes, I see what you mean. In my view, "weight on" is an offence; "grasping jumper" is not an offence in its own right. Mugsey possibly sees them both as sealing.

 

[Ian_Cook]

There is always 15.7 (a) to consider...

[LAWS]15.7 FORBIDDEN PRACTICES
(a) No player may prevent the tackled player from passing the ball.
Sanction: Penalty kick[/LAWS]

... if you grab the tackled player's jersey in such a way (say, by the arm or sleeve) that you are preventing him from passing the ball, you should be pinged for it.

Best option is to grab the ball

 

[Dickie E]

Best option is to grab the ball

Remember we are talking here about the tackled player's team mate. He is likely to be looking to set a platform.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Remember we are talking here about the tackled player's team mate. He is likely to be looking to set a platform.

Oh. I thought you were talking about the jackler

 

[didds]

See 16.2.a, anyone ever free kicked for this? I did once, and players and spectators thought I was on the wrong pitch!

Players will "need" to breach this because their oppo has been able/allowed to seal off, in an attempt to get lower than the opposition whose own head is now lower than their hips. At the top level its also because there are bodies all over the floor that need bulldozing away, possibly at lower levels too of course!


Remove the "need" to enter in this manner and you remove the reasons why it happens.

didds

 

[didds]

"grasping jumper" is not an offence in its own right. .

there have been suggestions here that holding the jumper of the tackled player is preventing him form rolling away

15.5 The tackled player
(a)
A tackled player must not lie on, over, or near the ball to prevent opponents from gaining possession of it, and must try to make the ball available immediately so that play can continue.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(b)
A tackled player must immediately pass the ball or release it. That player must also get up or move away from it at once.
Sanction: Penalty kick

didds

 

[DocY]

Going over the ball and leaning on the ground or tackled player with your shoulder I do see being penalised.

The rule of thumb I use is "if you took away whatever his hands were on, would he fall over?" if so, I'd treat that as going off his feet and penalise.

I don't think I've ever given a FK - if a player's entering a ruck with his shoulders below his hips it's a precursor to him flopping over the top and conceding a penalty.

 

[Paule23]

I think the op was mainly referring to sealing off, mainly by putting hands beyond the ball.

I penalise this and see it being penalised in the professional game, so it may just be the op has seen some instances where it was not penalised.

Does everyone agree that players joining the ruck putting hands on the ground beyond the ball, either deliberately or through losing balance and needing to put weight on hands beyond the ball, is sealing off and should be penalised (preventing quick ball)?

Putting hands on the tackled player is a bit more open to interpretation. I would only penalise this if it prevented the ball carrier releasing the ball (place, pass etc.). Otherwise, not material, no offence, play on.

 

[chbg]

If they are just off-balance and do not interfere with the opponents' use of the ball, then I'll try not to blow. But yes, they are penalisable, particularly if they go for the ball themselves.