[Assistant Referees] conferring

[Verity]

I have recently had an e-mail complaint into my society because I conferred with a touch judge during a match. I think the wording was 'seeking confirmation'.
My advisor doesn't seem concerned but I was under the impression that if I am unsure I am allowed to seek clarification from my TJ as long as I ask and the TJ doesn't proffer advice when not asked. The laws say assistant referee but should I be losing sleep over this. IT seems an odd thing for a team to have a grumble about? Any thoughts please.

 

[crossref]

What were you conferring about ?

If it was touch , or whether a kick went over , that is fine .

If you conferred about anything else that would be a problem

A TJ is not the same thing as an AR

 

[Decorily]

What were you conferring about ?

If it was touch , or whether a kick went over , that is fine .

If you conferred about anything else that would be a problem

A TJ is not the same thing as an AR

Rubbish!

 

[Marc Wakeham]

What does the good book say Verity?



[LAWS]INTERACTION BETWEEN THE REFEREE AND ASSISTANT REFEREES / TOUCH JUDGES
13. The referee may consult with assistant referees about matters relating to their duties,
the law relating to foul play and timekeeping, and may request assistance related to
other aspects of the referee’s duties.
[/LAWS]

So you can ask an ASSISTANT REFEREE just about anything to do with a game.

However


[LAWS]INTERACTION BETWEEN THE REFEREE AND ASSISTANT REFEREES / TOUCH JUDGES

14. The referee may alter a decision after a touch judge or an assistant referee has raised the
flag to signal touch, touch-in-goal or an assistant referee has signalled foul play.[/LAWS]

A TOUCH JUDGE is not the the same beast. You may consult with regard to THEIR DUTIES. Duties which are limited to judging touch.

 

[crossref]

Rubbish!

Why is that rubbish ??

 

[Rich_NL]

Depends a bit on the level. Touch judges aren't ARs, and *should* only rule on going into touch and whether conversions are good, and aren't expected to give impartial advice like an AR. At lower levels though it can be better to ask for confirmation and get the right call than guess.

It's not something to worry about, really. At worst, it's a learning point about what your society expects!

I sometimes have TJs who offer to help out with blindsides, foul play etc, and I thank them very much but explain that it can cause complaints of partiality etc, so to restrict themselves to their TJ duties.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Depends a bit on the level. Touch judges aren't ARs, and *should* only rule on going into touch and whether conversions are good, and aren't expected to give impartial advice like an AR. At lower levels though it can be better to ask for confirmation and get the right call than guess.

It's not something to worry about, really. At worst, it's a learning point about what your society expects!

I sometimes have TJs who offer to help out with blindsides, foul play etc, and I thank them very much but explain that it can cause complaints of partiality etc, so to restrict themselves to their TJ duties.

Your thirdParagraph cotradicts the first.


At lower levels you have home and away TJs. Asking the home team's AR what happened at a foul play situation is fraught with danger.

Paragraph 3 is spot on. "Thanks for that TJ but I can only go on whay I see."

 

[Zebra1922]

We really need the op to state what was being consulted on. If a matter of touch then I see no problem, if it relates to anything else (potential foul play, offside etc.) then I can see why it would be challenged, however taking it to a complaint letter seems a bit much.

 

[crossref]

We really need the op to state what was being consulted on. If a matter of touch then I see no problem, if it relates to anything else (potential foul play, offside etc.) then I can see why it would be challenged, however taking it to a complaint letter seems a bit much.

Depends what it was ! And what action was taken by the OP following the consultation?

 

[Verity]

To be honest I can't really remember- in my post match notes I noted that a TJ had question a throw forward and I had given a penalty rather than a scrum as I deemed it deliberate as it was the third in as many minutes. Obv, it was the losing team that complained. This is my third season and it's a level 11 game but it clearly rattled someone's feathers.

 

[crossref]

To be honest I can't really remember- in my post match notes I noted that a TJ had question a throw forward and I had given a penalty rather than a scrum as I deemed it deliberate as it was the third in as many minutes. Obv, it was the losing team that complained. This is my third season and it's a level 11 game but it clearly rattled someone's feathers.

You mean you initially gave a scrum, the TJ then offered the opinion that it was deliberate, and so you changed to a PK ?

I think the oppo would be justified in being miffed about that.

Or you gave a PK, the TJ said it was a scrum and you ignored him ? That would perfectly proper

 

[Rich_NL]

Your thirdParagraph cotradicts the first.


At lower levels you have home and away TJs. Asking the home team's AR what happened at a foul play situation is fraught with danger.

Paragraph 3 is spot on. "Thanks for that TJ but I can only go on whay I see."

Paragraph one is about requesting information if, say, you were unsighted. Para 3 is about giving TJs the power to intervene.

But for clarity, I'd not rely on TJs for my decisions

 

[Verity]

No I mean I gave two scrums then a penalty and the TJ of the team in question gave me a hard time about it. The penalty stood and I did not change my mind and I still stand by the decision.

 

[crossref]

No I mean I gave two scrums then a penalty and the TJ of the team in question gave me a hard time about it. The penalty stood and I did not change my mind and I still stand by the decision.

In which case I am not sure what was the nature of their complaint ? Were they complaining that you didn't listen to the TJ ?

 

[Zebra1922]

No I mean I gave two scrums then a penalty and the TJ of the team in question gave me a hard time about it. The penalty stood and I did not change my mind and I still stand by the decision.

And this is the point I’d be strongly considering removing the flag and giving it to someone else. I know club TJs will have loyalty etc. but if they start to challenge my decisions they can’t continue in this role.

 

[Verity]

That is pretty much my point. It seems like such an odd thing to complain about. I don't think there was an issue so what do they gain by griping to the society, they must know there is nothing really to solve? Just wanted to check it wasn't me having a brain sneeze! Thanks for all the feedback, people!

 

[crossref]

I am still unclear what happened

They complained because you wouldn't listen to the TJ ?

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Paragraph one is about requesting information if, say, you were unsighted. Para 3 is about giving TJs the power to intervene.

But for clarity, I'd not rely on TJs for my decisions

What clarification could an "interested " TJ give you if you were unsighted that did not impact on a decision? Other than the powers that a TJ has by definition?

For example, are you suggesting you'd ask either TJ to confirm grounding for a try where you were unsighted?

 

[chbg]

It is remarkably petty (and somewhat abusive) for a club to complain about a specific referee at a Level 11 match over one such issue. I would expect full support from your Society, even if some education arose out of it.

The club could by all means ask a general question if such conduct observed in a recent match was appropriate, enabling the society to conduct any required group education.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Sounds very petty especially at L11, you might want to consider wether you want to give up your free time refereeing them again.