Continuum Rules Under 11/12

[davidgh]

Mauls

Having moved up to U12, and I think suffering from the schools u13/12 mix up.

In a maul, the maul having formed - may an u12 ball carrier drop from the maul and thus turn the maul into a ruck.

I read the Maul rules in the Continuum which say 'all players shall remain on thier feet' and forward and upward pressure' and say this is a penalty offence. Experienced rugby player coaches tell me this is mad!! I suspect I am right and following exactly what the CRG intended, but would like some support.

6(h) Any player at any stage in a maul who has or causes an opponent to have, his shoulders lower than his hip joint must immediately be penalised by awarding a penalty kick. The object of this rule is to prevent the collapse of a maul. It is to help the coach to teach good technique and the referee to penalise bad technique. Any player who has his shoulders lower than his hip joint can only move downwards unless he has very great strength. The force through the shoulders should be directed forwards and upwards; all players should remain on their feet, thus preventing a pile up and possible injury.

I look forward to some thoughts pls

 

[stuart3826]

Experienced rugby player coaches don't always know so much.

Young bodies are still forming and can't take the pressures generated if they're bent double. Also it's a good idea to try & get the hang of not collapsing a maul early on - remember which of the ELV's didn't make it to law - and ask yourself why!

 

[Dixie]

I'm slightly at odds with Stuart's view. It is common practice at lower adult levels for the ball carrier in a maul to try to go to ground, and is specifically permitted in the adult LoTG. This is the default situation, so it applies at U.12 unless the Continuum specifically bans it.

The regulation you quote, davidgh, does not prevent the ball carrier going to ground. This is usually achieved by letting the legs go floppy, thus using the player's weight to try to break the grip of otehrs with hands on the ball. It is most unlikely that this manoeuvre will cause anyone's shoulders to drop below their hips. If there is no other banning reg, I'd say it is allowed.

However, please note that getting the ball to ground in this way tends not to turn the maul into a ruck. We still have a maul, and if the ball is not immediately available to be played, we have an unsuccessful end to the maul - use it or lose it, turnover scrum to the opposition. What is most likely to happen, in my experience, is that the ball carrier's knee or bum will hit the ground; he's then on the deck with the ball most definitely unavailable; whistle, turnover scrum, unsuccessful end to the maul - even if one side or the other is driving forward.

This tactic needs to be coached out of players, as it very rarely works. If you haven't made it to deck by the time the maul forms, you are unlikely to be able to do it cleanly. Coaches who want to ruck rather than maul need to get players to ground at the initial contact, so others can ruck over. Those who want to maul need to concentrate on smuggling skills. The only reason this "ball carrier to ground" idea is coached or encouraged is an incorrect assumption that they'll turn it into a ruck and get the put-in when the whole thing collapses, being the side going forward. Have another look at Law 17.6(g): If the ball carrier in a maul goes to ground, including being on one or both knees or sitting, the referee orders a scrum unless the ball is immediately available.

 

[davidgh]

thanks guys = very helpful

Dixie, you say "The regulation you quote, davidgh, does not prevent the ball carrier going to ground" what about the clear, "all players should remain on their feet"

elsewhere the Continuum penalises anybody not on thier feet in a ruck or maul, they are assumed to have gone down on purpose unless it is obvious that this is not the case = PENALTY

Isn't the intent very clear?

 

[Phil E]

Dixie, you say "The regulation you quote, davidgh, does not prevent the ball carrier going to ground" what about the clear, "all players should remain on their feet"

(g) If the ball carrier in a maul goes to ground, including being on one or both knees or sitting,
the referee orders a scrum unless the ball is immediately available.

 

[Dixie]

Phil, Davidgh means the Continuum regulations. Davidgh, the Continuum regs are laid out as variations, with individual sections covering areas such as tackle, ruck, maul, scrum, line-out. It is in those sections you need to look for the answer to your question, bearing in mind the status of variations (i.e. we default to adult rules in the absence of a variation). It is possible that 6a) might help your cause

(a) A maul occurs when a player carrying the ball is held by one or more opponents and one or more of the ball-carrier's team-mates bind on to the ball-carrier. It is helpful if the referee calls "maul formed". All the players involved are on their feet.

You could read this as a requirement that all players in a maul are to remain on their feet; equally, however, it could be interpreted simply as stressing that a maul does not form if a failed tackle has been attempted, and the tackler is still hanging onto the ball carrier's ankle. Such is the frustration of rugby's imprecise rules and laws.

 

[Phil E]

I believe that in the continuum for U12 law 6(d) suggests that while a ball carrier can go to ground, it leads to an unsuccessful end to a maul.

(d) A maul ends unsuccessfully if the ball becomes unplayable or the maul collapses (not as a result of
foul play) and a scrum is awarded. Should a maul collapse, the referee must immediately blow the
whistle to stop play, to prevent a pile up from developing.

The referee blows up immediately and does not allow play to carry on, even if the ball is immediately available.

 

[davidgh]

Chaps

Rule 6h of the Continuum is copied in my original question!

I would like to add this to my well researched guide to reffing u11/12 continuum rugby, but can't get to the answer!!

 

[Steve Bate]

I think that Phil E covered it above, if the ball carrier goes to ground then Unsuccesful end to maul