[Tackle] Dangerous tackling

[Fatboy_Ginge]

Right,

On the Rugby Banter page over on facebook this reared its ugly head...

http://www.rugbyonslaught.com/2015/11/american-ref-sees-nothing-wrong-with.html

Now it has resulted in much discussion over "what was wrong with it", I will admit to getting my initial comment wrong in that it was a tip tackle as only one leg comes up but the landing IMO still makes it a dangerous tackle and a straight red.

I'd particularly like to hear from some of the American refs if this sort of tackle is still ongoing.

 

[Iron_Lung]

As someone reffing in the US, the first thing worth noting is that many of the players don't grow up with rugby. Many of them come from other contact sports including hockey, NFL or lacrosse. That means their tackle technique is not as polished or sound, and you often see tackles where the intent of the tackler is to get someone on the ground, without much more thought than that.

I can't see much wrong with the tackle above, other than to say it is poor technique. The ball carrier is not lifted, not rotated and not dropped. Her foot stays in contact with the ground throughout the tackle and her hip hits the ground before her shoulder. Under the current laws and expanatory guidelines, the most you could call that is a poor tackle, but dangerous? Not really. I personnally wouldn't have given anything, but I may have had a word with the player/coach about this type of tackle and the potential danger.

The other one you're talking about is this gem of a tackle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED5NQcMyDHc#action=share

Player is lifted, rotated and driven into the ground in one of the most horrible tackles I've seen in a while. This should have been a straight red and a lot of weeks from the judiciary if there is any justice in the game. The tackled player had every chance of breaking his neck in the tackle. I think this would have been penalised in the NFL as well, so learned technique is no excuse.

They are two very different tackles. The only common factor is that the tackler grabbed the ball carrier from behind at the commencement of the tackle. Other than that, the progression of the tackle was very different so I don't believe you can categorize them in the same way. Using it as an excuse to bash american rugby or US based referees is just hubris at it's finest and disrespectful to the people who struggle to keep the game going over here. They need to wind their heads in, read the laws and get on with their own games...

 

[Fatboy_Ginge]

It wasn't intended as a "dig" at American rugby in anyway. I was merely interested in whether this was a semi common occurence, for the reasons that you say.

As I saw it, the second one was by far and away the more dangerous tackle but surely even allowing for poor tackle technique the 1st one is dangerous as well?

 

[Iron_Lung]

I wasn't having a poke at you, but some of the opinions on that page are tragically misinformed.

The throw tackle is not so much the theme as is the poor tackle technique. Poor body height, head on the wrong side, daisy cutter tackles, all are regular features of the games I see. Out of curiosity, do you penalise a sling tackle where the player is thrown to ground via a handful of jersey grabbed below the chest? Is this one bad because she went down on her back and her head whipped down? Is it because it was unexpected?

What makes this particular tackle dangerous and in contravention of the rules? Genuine question, I'm trying to see what you see so I can understand better!

 

[OB..]

To me the action is that of lift and throw - sort of a suplex? Too uncontrolled for my liking and wortth a PK.

 

[crossref]

are there TWO referees on the field?

 

[chbg]

are there TWO referees on the field?

Well spotted! Looks like an adult mentor.

 

[menace]

I wasn't having a poke at you, but some of the opinions on that page are tragically misinformed.

The throw tackle is not so much the theme as is the poor tackle technique. Poor body height, head on the wrong side, daisy cutter tackles, all are regular features of the games I see. Out of curiosity, do you penalise a sling tackle where the player is thrown to ground via a handful of jersey grabbed below the chest? U19...yes Because it's a junior variation here. Over u19... Sometimes, depends on how vicious it is.. Is this one bad because she went down on her back and her head whipped down? Is it because it was unexpected?

What makes this particular tackle dangerous and in contravention of the rules? Genuine question, I'm trying to see what you see so I can understand better!

To me the action is that of lift and throw - sort of a suplex? Too uncontrolled for my liking and wortth a PK.

Iron lung...In regard to the 'back slam' method of tackling...certainly we are taking a dim view of it here. Certainly if the players arms are pinned and they're back slammed in that way we are looking at PK and YC as they are very prone to being thrown into their neck/head/face as they have no way to take any self preservation action. So not under tip tackle but under dangerous tackle law. (Which I'm sure you won't disagree with).

This one from OP is ho hum and falls right on the line to go either way..as doesn't look horrifically dangerous. So although she doesn't grab the players arms and lock them up the back slamming action to me still poses a danger to the player being flipped onto their head. Like OB Id be leaning towards a PK for that one, because of the action, not the outcome. The PK will in no uncertain terms let the player know their poor technique needs some self review.

 

[Dickie E]

how many weeks for this one?

 

[Iron_Lung]

Iron lung...In regard to the 'back slam' method of tackling...certainly we are taking a dim view of it here.

I can see your point of view and completely understand taking a dim view of the 'back slam' tackle. I think you summed it up nicely in terms of the reasons that we'd PK vs let it go. The one from the OP seems more like a drag tackle than a slam/lift & slam. I guess it comes back to the tone of the game and the level. I just see so many tackles where a player is dragged down backwards from their hips and onto their back, and it doesn't strike me as dangerous in and of itself, only made dangerous in the way it is carried out, like any tackle really.

I probably wouldn't have an issue with a PK in the OP tackle, but without knowing the full context of the game you really could go either way. I could still be convinced...

 

[menace]

how many weeks for this one?

View attachment 3340

Three weeks out at least.....to black to recover from the concussion!