[Law] Defender lifting ball carrier in open play

[WoodyOne]

Quick question - is there any law prohibiting a defender lifting and holding a ball carrier up with their feet off the ground to stop them going to ground? In effect to stopping contact becoming a tackle and forcing a mail?

I had this situation on Sat, with defender bear hugging the BC and taking his feet off the ground for about 3 seconds. I didn't see any danger and he put him down carefully but it made me wonder if there was anything sanctionable in him doing so.

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Please excuse the typo on what is clearly meant to say maul!

 

[Decorily]

I don't believe it's illegal in itself but the outcome could be!
At any level, but especially in underage, I would prefer to manage it to prevent it becoming dangerous.

Edit. Remember if the ball carrier is being lifted and carried backwards and you blow it up for safety reasons the scrum will go to the team going forward not the team in possession.

 

[ChrisR]

Quite legal. Defender can carry the BC to touch to get the lineout throw or turn the BC towards the defenders team to get a ball strip.

If the BC can get a knee to the ground then it's a tackle and the defender must release him.

 

[Zebra1922]

Legal, but as noted the consequences can be illegal so be wary of this. On most occasions you caplet it play (either becomes a maul, usually unplayable, or they get a knee down and we have a tackle) but I have seen player lifted into potentially dangerous situations and have blown for a scrum for safety reasons. You can argue no offence has taken place so I shouldn't be whistling, but if I see a player in a dangerous position that could lead to injury, I prefer the preventative approach.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Agreed Legal BUT a potential flashpoint. Manage with care.

 

[OB..]

cf Will Carling being carried out of the in-goal and therefore failing to score.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

cf Will Carling being carried out of the in-goal and therefore failing to score.

A most enjoyable memory.epper:

 

[DocY]

cf Will Carling being carried out of the in-goal and therefore failing to score.

Like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03gpzFZadcQ

Wish I was as fast as that ref!

 

[OB..]

Like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03gpzFZadcQ

Wish I was as fast as that ref!

I'd never really noticed the ref before! Full marks to him. Who was he?

 

[Decorily]

I definitely feel I would be blowing up earlier in this scenario, especially with another support player arriving at pace.

Maybe that is why I have never refereed at this level!

 

[ChrisR]

What was the restart? Attacking 5m or defenders 22DO? I'd give the 22 every time.

 

[Rich_NL]

Attacker brought the ball into ingoal, 22D/O.

 

[crossref]

Attacker brought the ball into ingoal, 22D/O.

This is the decision we would all give , but ChrisR was being mischievous .. there is no longer a Law Reference that tells you this

 

[DocY]

This is the decision we would all give , but ChrisR was being mischievous .. there is no longer a Law Reference that tells you this

If he'd had his wits about him he'd have 'accidentally' knocked on before going over the DBL

 

[Jolly Roger]

Hi Woody. I had a similar situation but lasted more than 2-3 seconds. See post below for replies

http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread.php?20760-Maul-player-lifted-off-his-feet

This situation occurred again last weekend and I immediately called on the lifter to “put him down carefully now!” He hid and no issues.

 

[CrouchTPEngage]

Attacker brought the ball into ingoal, 22D/O.

Incorrect I beleive.
Law 21.17
When a player carrying the ball is held up in the in-goal so that the player cannot ground or play the ball, the ball is dead. Play restarts with a five-metre scrum, in line with the place where the player was held up. The attacking team throws in.

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What was the restart? Attacking 5m or defenders 22DO? I'd give the 22 every time.

Why ? The law says it should be a 5m attacking scrum - right ?

 

[Phil E]

Incorrect I beleive.
Law 21.17
When a player carrying the ball is held up in the in-goal so that the player cannot ground or play the ball, the ball is dead. Play restarts with a five-metre scrum, in line with the place where the player was held up. The attacking team throws in.

Was he called as held up?
Or
Was he called as driven over the dead ball line, so made dead?

 

[Rich_NL]

The ref didn't blow his whistle until after he was bundled over the line, so I presume a 22.

 

[DocY]

Incorrect I beleive.
Law 21.17
When a player carrying the ball is held up in the in-goal so that the player cannot ground or play the ball, the ball is dead. Play restarts with a five-metre scrum, in line with the place where the player was held up. The attacking team throws in.

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Why ? The law says it should be a 5m attacking scrum - right ?

Hold your horses.

'Held up' is what happens when play stops evolving. You have to give all the players involved - both attack and defence - a chance to actually do something and only declare it held up when they're all collapsed in a pile with the ball somewhere in the middle.

Calling held up in a case such as the Carling incident not only deprives the defending team the chance of bundling the BC out of play, but also deprives the BC the chance of grounding the ball.

 

[Decorily]

Hold your horses.

'Held up' is what happens when play stops evolving. You have to give all the players involved - both attack and defence - a chance to actually do something and only declare it held up when they're all collapsed in a pile with the ball somewhere in the middle.

Calling held up in a case such as the Carling incident not only deprives the defending team the chance of bundling the BC out of play, but also deprives the BC the chance of grounding the ball.

...."when they're all collapsed in a pile"....

This is the last thing you want.
To say you "only" blow at this stage is ridiculous!