Delayed kick off..

[ex-lucy]

Prematch chats complete.
Toss up complete. Both captains satisfied.
you walk to the middle ...
One team has a huddle and shout some sort of cadence to get wound up.
That team lines up ....
Then the other team breaks away and gets in a huddle to perform their cadence/ huddle.

Decision ?

 

[SimonSmith]

That I mismanaged the pre match routine!

Seriously - I get the captains togther at least 15 minutes before k/off, and after the talk and coin give them the countdown: a warning at 5 mins to go; a second warning with 2 mins to go. When they get that one, they better get their act together because we WILL be starting 2 minutes later.

Avoids the very problem you just outlined.

 

[madref]

Agree with Simon

Don't let it happen. I do toss 15 minutes or so before. I will give you a knock on 5, then on 2.

I then say 2 minutes later I start!

David

 

[Simon Thomas]

I have always given both teams a 'one minute' warning to kick off when on the pitch, and told them it will happen at my skippers' briefing.
As far as I am concerned it is 5 mins door knocks, 2 minutes to go 'straight out please in one minute please' and then onto pitch and as they huddle up I call 'one minute kick off warning, gents'.

What happeneed at weekend in Brisbane was a first for me - the NZ haka followed by the Aussies getting their tackle bags back out for a few minutes warm up routine - clever but watch out for the iRB ruling on it's legality.

 

[OB..]

That raises a question: if the ABs are allowed time for their haka, should not the Ozzies be allowed time for tackle practice (they certainly needed it!)? What of PI v NZ matches where they (sometimes) take turns to do their versions of the haka?

I presume all these things have been agreed beforehand with the referee, who has a TV deadline as well.

 

[ex-lucy]

OB.. exactly what i was leading up to... I u/stand a little bit of leniency @ int level cos of tv etc ... but i felt for poor old Jutge and his 'control'.

avoid the problem/ dont let it happen?
What if you cant avoid it?

"because we WILL be starting 2 minutes later."

you would say this and insist at, say, level 8 league match ?

what if yellow then all disappear to the sideline for a chat with the coach?
would you let black kick off ? with no oppo?
and what if yellow won toss and it was their kick off?

and what if the huddle/warmup thing for yellow involves tackle pads and the pads are still on the pitch ?

level 12?

 

[OB..]

You have to be reasonable. You do not need to count the seconds on your stop watch. However if you have set a sensible kick-off time and one team shows no sign of meeting it say 1 minute beforehand, remind them, and do not accept any pleas of "only a couple more minutes, ref". They have no right to hold up the game. Tell the captain you will if necessary start the game without them. If they still show no signs of taking any notice, on their own heads be it.

If the game is a friendly, be more relaxed, but there is still no reason for a team to take liberties. If you don't stand firm before the game you will probably have trouble during it.

The lower the level the more fuzzy the timing - some 60 year olds have trouble reaching down to tie their bootlaces.

 

[outofpuff]

Fine in theory guy's.
BUT, we have no sanctions or power to insist the game starts. Our authority starts when the ball is kicked off.
We can not penalise a side for delaying the kick off only let them know how pi**ed off we are and let a few 50/50 decisions go against them.

 

[OB..]

Our authority starts when the ball is kicked off.

Not entirely - the toss, for example, is specified in the laws.

However there is a lot the laws do not cover. We do know that the referee's whistle starts the match, but there is nothing to say when he should blow it. "At the agreed time, roughly" would seem reasonable under most circumstances.

As to jurisdiction, if during the toss one captain knocked out the other, I suggest the referee should red card him and let the disciplinary committee sort it out. The alternative wouldd be to call the police.

(I can't say I have ever come across anything even remotely like this scenario.)

 

[Davet]

I suppose that the harsh answer would be - if opposition kick off then start the game - if theirs then FK to opposition for time-wasting.

In reality I would probably just ask if we can start before it gets dark, or get going soon so the Firsts/seconds/thirds/vets as appropriate don't nick all the hot water later.

 

[OB..]

Davet Exactly.

 

[tim White]

Question is, WHY are they delaying the kick off?

Make sure you have done all your prematch stuff early enough so it is obvious who is delaying the kick off.

Does it really matter?

 

[ex-lucy]

OB/ Davet etc ... i hear what you are saying 99.99% of the time we can avoid these situations with gentle reminders etc.
How many tests have their been in history?
how many times has this happened? once?
it might just happen on your beat in a league match at level 7 or 8. Esp now Oz have done it.
So, all pre match issues resolved etc.
At Kick off time, black ready for kick off but yellows still has tackle pads etc on the pitch. Would you really start with a FK to oppo and start the match?
what does a couple of minutes matter ?
If you start getting pedantic and over officious for a matter of a few seconds, say 60-120, then you have to be prepared to carry out what you are threatening.
Then you really have laid your cards out.
Consistency?
Are you going to be pedantic and over officious at the next breakdown when black go over the top or hands in or dont get back behind back feet and not use materiality?
Surely you would use common sense ... you dont want to ruin the start of a potentially good match with over officiousness ...

read this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2006/07/31/sosayl31.xml

"This was a classic case of regatta officials being largely right in terms of the literal interpretation of the sailing instructions, but wrong in terms of providing what competitors come to Cowes for - a marvellous day of Solent racing."

 

[Davet]

No - I wouldn't actually worry about the few seconds, as I tried to say.

The more real scenario is that the pitch is 250 metres from the changing rooms, I have been out warming up, as have both teams, all pre-match checks, talks, toss etc are complete. One of the teams is still out ready, feeling (as, frankly, do I) that its a long walk back for little purpose - but the other team, clearly of contrary opinion, has disappeared back to the clubhouse. When they went back in they were told, clearly "7 mins to KO, guys!"

Now the side out on the pitch are checking the time with their coach on touchline and looking significantly in my direction...

What would others do?

 

[ex-lucy]

my prematch chat involves asking the capts "if they are staying out or going back in", but if they change their mind and do go back in, i would go back with the players to the changing rooms and keep reminding them. On 2 mins to go to KO. "OUT, pls gentlemen."
No reaction?
"Capt pls"
"pls get your players out on to the pitch NOW"
no reaction? If they really mean to come out when THEY want.
Dunno! Try and remain calm. Utter such phrases as "two mins past kick off time, chaps. Let's get this show on the road."
when they do get out. Call capt to centre. Loudly!
"let's start as we mean to carry on.... you're the captain of that team and i am the referee. Pls dont lets get our roles confused. Any more of this discourtesy or lack of respect for my verbal requests and decisions will be sanctioned severely. GOT THAT?"
wait for acknowledgement i.e. "Yes, Sir"
Penalty?
Dunno. Maybe some leniency to show mercy, as it may have been the coach's orders.

 

[Tibbs]

I suppose that the harsh answer would be - if opposition kick off then start the game - if theirs then FK to opposition for time-wasting.

QUOTE]

I had exactly this in a game I refereed. I awarded a free kick, as they were taking the mick.

Chris

 

[madref]

Can you start a game with only one team on the pitch if the others are refusing to come out of the changing room!

So you let the non offending team kick off , score a try kick the goal and then award a penalty restart for unsportsman like conduct.

Or would you be in deep trouble

David

 

[Davet]

Or would you be in deep trouble

Is trouble always to be avoided?

 

[Simon Griffiths]

"When life offers you two options, always take the one that will get you into most trouble." Don't know who said it, probably someone wise, so I'd say trouble is to be actively sought rather than avoided...

 

[AlanT]

In extreme cases how about yellow card for the last player to reach the pitch?