[Tackle] Entry in a tackle !!!

[rugbyslave]

I just need clarity please, Red 12 has the ball, Blue 12 tackles the ball carrier they both go to ground. Blue 13 and Red 13 are coming in from red's side of the tackle, red 12 on the ground pops the ball up for red 13 but blue 13 receives the ball within the one meter radius of the tackle.I now believe that Blue should be penalised for wrong entry into the tackle. ?? Not entering the tackle
through his gate!!!

 

[Dickie E]

I just need clarity please, Red 12 has the ball, Blue 12 tackles the ball carrier they both go to ground. Blue 13 and Red 13 are coming in from red's side of the tackle, red 12 on the ground pops the ball up for red 13 but blue 13 receives the ball within the one meter radius of the tackle.I now believe that Blue should be penalised for wrong entry into the tackle. ?? Not entering the tackle
through his gate!!!

Yes indeed

 

[rugbyslave]

Thank you, it is just that in the Law book there is not mention of a one meter radius of the tackle area. I never looked at 2017 but will read through.

 

[Taff]

Thank you, it is just that in the Law book there is not mention of a one meter radius of the tackle area. I never looked at 2017 but will read through.

But the lawbook does mention "near" and near is defined as 1m.

 

[Guyseep]

Depending on the timing and placement of the pop pass from the tackle, it might be argued that the pop pass ended the tackle and we are now in open play so no gate, etc

 

[VM75]

But the lawbook does mention "near" and near is defined as 1m.

Indeed,
15.6.[d]

[FONT=fs_blakeregular]At a tackle or near to a tackle, other players who play the ball must do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or the tackler closest to those players’ goal line.


But what about those that don't play the ball but instead immediately tackle/grab the player whose had the ball popped up to him, are they Ok to do so? it often occupies a lot of post match discussion - thoughts anyone?

Extend the scope to include such , or permit ?

[/FONT]

 

[OB..]

Indeed,
15.6.[d]

[FONT=fs_blakeregular]At a tackle or near to a tackle, other players who play the ball must do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or the tackler closest to those players’ goal line.


[/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]But what about those that don't play the ball[/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular] but instead immediately tackle/grab the player whose had the ball popped up to him, are they Ok to do so? it often occupies a lot of post match discussion - thoughts anyone?

Extend the scope to include such , or permit ?

[/FONT]

We have had the argument before that the law only applies if you intend to play the ball.

I don't think that is a sensible interpretation, and I don't see it as the one being applied. IMHO it should read "other players who enter the tackle area before the tackle has ended", for example. It would be nice to see it amended to get rid of this legalistic tripwire.

 

[ChuckieB]

Surely good coaching is to take the ball into the tackle and look to securely set it back. No reason to ping a player who has had it unexpectedly offloaded to him. His good fortune in my book.

 

[Dickie E]

Surely good coaching is to take the ball into the tackle and look to securely set it back. No reason to ping a player who has had it unexpectedly offloaded to him. His good fortune in my book.

I disagree. He has got himself in a position that he shouln't be. Best good fortune he can hope for is to not get a YC.

 

[Pegleg]

I disagree. He has got himself in a position that he shouln't be. Best good fortune he can hope for is to not get a YC.

Agreed, it is hardly "good coaching" to coach people to get into illegal positions.

 

[ChuckieB]

My understanding of the original post is that blue didn't put himself in that position. It was incidental to the tackle.

the coaching point relates to the tackled player. if you coach a pure offloading game then it's a risk you take in tight situations.

 

[Dickie E]

My understanding of the original post is that he didn't put himself in that position. It was incidental to the tackle.

OP says

Blue 13 and Red 13 are coming in from red's side of the tackle

but either way he is in the wrong place and needs to get himself in the right place. We call this "taking up space". And catching pop passes doesn't cut the mustard either

 

[Pegleg]

My understanding of the original post is that blue didn't put himself in that position. It was incidental to the tackle.

the coaching point relates to the tackled player. if you coach a pure offloading game then it's a risk you take in tight situations.

He approaches the tackle.

He sees it.

He choses to continue towards the tackle (illegal) OR he choses to go around (legal).

 

[ChuckieB]

He approaches the tackle.

He sees it.

He choses to continue towards the tackle (illegal) OR he choses to go around (legal).

Hypothetical.

You set out a view that says he sees it and acts accordingly. I suggest it might be incidental.

Some see a reason to ping him because the thing we have is the law. I am trying to find a reason not to ping him and to apply advantage unless there is a solid reason not to.

I am cynical that a player looking to pop a pass in a melee might conceivably try to contrive a penalty by popping up to a player who might just happen to be trying to get there legitimately or is in the vicinity by virtue of the dynamics of the play.

I could certainly envisage a situation where blue might be infringing, e.g, coming across the back of the breakdown so as to cause an obstrcution.

So would really need some footage around a real example.

 

[ChrisR]

Let's be realistic. When the BC offloads in a tackle it's going to be immediately, often before he hits the ground (though not in the OP). That doesn't leave any time for the chasing defender to avoid the tackle area.

The onus is on the BC to put the ball in the hands of a teammate. "Accidental offsides" might be a just call but I don't see that supported in law. Otherwise it's "Play on!" for me.

 

[DocY]

I think the solid reason to ping him is that he deliberately played the ball from an offside position - it doesn't matter how he got there - and it's difficult to play advantage when the infringing team are in possession.

If blue 13 is in that position, the best he can do is not catch the ball and hope the referee gives it as accidental offside or decides it's immaterial.

 

[ChrisR]

I think the solid reason to ping him is that he deliberately played the ball from an offside position - it doesn't matter how he got there - and it's difficult to play advantage when the infringing team are in possession.

If blue 13 is in that position, the best he can do is not catch the ball and hope the referee gives it as accidental offside or decides it's immaterial.

He may have been coming from an offside position but the tackle didn't create an offside line.

 

[didds]

the coaching point relates to the tackled player. if you coach a pure offloading game then it's a risk you take in tight situations.

I think that is fair enough from ChuckieB. Though Id have to say that my understanding (which of course may be wrong!) is that an oppo receiving a pop pass such as described within a metre of the tackle is liable to be penalised, so its a small "risk" from my coaching perspective.

didds

- - - Updated - - -

... buit its not "offside" thouhg. its merely not "coming through the gate"

didds

 

[ChrisR]

Look at it this way:

Red BC makes a line break. Blue is chasing. Another Blue defender tackles the Red BC.

If the Red BC offloads before he hits the ground then there is no tackle, no tackle zone so the Blue chaser can't be at fault for catching the offload.

If the Red BC offloads after he hits the ground then a tackle has occurred. The timing difference here is in milliseconds.

No player can process and act in that time frame. Play on.

 

[ChuckieB]

This implied 1M or coming through the gate is surely in respect of attempting to directly disrupt or play ball and not having as a consequence of having the ball popped to you by an opposition player?

I see this as different to the Chiefs example (when we were looking at tackle only situations a while back) where a player was positively loitering within the 1m zone. He put himself in that position and his presence there was not incidental to the dynamics of the play.

Looking for an offence is the wrong mindset IMO.

As I noted I am picturing a hypothetical situation. Without more visualisation or "information to compute", it is play on for me.