Front row brief

colesy


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I suppose this raises the question as to whether there is any need to check studs.

Studs are different in the sense that Law 4.5(a) compels the ref to carry out a stud check.
 

Taff


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I was assessed yesterday, he specifically declined listening to the PMB. I was surprised, because its clearly the first interaction in game management communication with the captains, from which in-match referal to it follows.
Exactly. Why wouldn't an Assessor want to see how you do the whole job?
 

OB..


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I was assessed yesterday, he specifically declined listening to the PMB.
Did he say why?

One of our former assessors declined to use a listening kit. He claimed he could get all he wanted from the referee's use of signals, whistle, and commands. I asked about the referee having a quiet word with players, and he wasn't bothered. I think it is an important part of match management.
 

Balones

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Listening to the PMB at L5 and above is not part of protocol.
Occasionally at L5 (especially with a L6 ref being tried out) I have been asked to listen in so that i can give some guidance on its suitability for that level.
At L6 I have asked if he/she minds me listening in. At society level and with society refs it is accepted that the MO will listen in because it forms part of the ref's development programme.
 

Pegleg

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Listening to the PMB at L5 and above is not part of protocol.
Occasionally at L5 (especially with a L6 ref being tried out) I have been asked to listen in so that i can give some guidance on its suitability for that level.
At L6 I have asked if he/she minds me listening in. At society level and with society refs it is accepted that the MO will listen in because it forms part of the ref's development programme.

I can understand that, in principle. However, watching the scrum management of some top refs I'd be very interested to see what standards they have laid down.

"Do what you like lads. Oh 9, Chack the ball in so at least one player in the scrum needs touch it."
 

Browner

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Did he say why?

One of our former assessors declined to use a listening kit. He claimed he could get all he wanted from the referee's use of signals, whistle, and commands. I asked about the referee having a quiet word with players, and he wasn't bothered. I think it is an important part of match management.

He didn't say.

Within 5 mins of our meeting he'd informed me that he'd once assessed ' former international referee' and given him a poor report adding that the ' elite referee' had displayed an arogance that he'd 'suspected' was because the fixture was beneath him (?)

my PMB discussions must've been similarly disinteresting, least that's my presumption.
 

Browner

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Listening to the PMB at L5 and above is not part of protocol.
Occasionally at L5 (especially with a L6 ref being tried out) I have been asked to listen in so that i can give some guidance on its suitability for that level.
At L6 I have asked if he/she minds me listening in.
At society level and with society refs it is accepted that the MO will listen in because it forms part of the ref's development programme.

Balones, How far up the Levels are PMB's conducted, or ....at which level do they cease to be used?
 

matty1194


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Balones, How far up the Levels are PMB's conducted, or ....at which level do they cease to be used?

Browner, I dont know at what level's Balones is watching at but I can confirm with first hand experience that I have seen and heard PMB's being given at both Edinburgh and Glasgow for both their 1st XV and the A teams and the opposition before PRO12 matches and at this seasons 6 Nations matches as well as at the Scotland v NZ match in last year's Autumn internationals so the players do get given instructions of what the referee expects.
 
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Balones

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Sorry, there seems to be some confusion. PMB's, as Matty1194 points out go all the way to the top - including Internationals. What I was referring to was the obligation/requirement for the Match Observer to listen in to the PMB, especially in relation to the front rows.

As a slight aside the nature of a PMB at the higher levels of the game go beyond simply a talk just before the game. A PMB at the higher levels does have different levels of input and, for example,could involve a discussion on interpreting the laws with the coaches present and not the players perhaps a couple of days before. At NL2 and above it is not unusual for a club coach to contact the ref and ask him questions about his expectations/requirements.
 

ddjamo


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Every time the old pmb topic comes up it turns into multiple pages and lots of concern. I haven't done (what most here consider) a proper pmb in years. I would never go back to it unless it was mandated by law. I have yet to have one single captain ask me to speak longer and repeat the typical pmb script. Most thank me for not putting them through it.

I have a hard time believing that the likes of sir Nige says much at all to a professional front rower unless it's something he has been told to say eg - a clarification. They all study each other and watch volumes of film for crying out loud.

There comes a point when the pmb becomes "talking down" to them.
 
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matty1194


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Every time the old pmb topic comes up it turns into multiple pages and lots of concern. I haven't done (what most here consider) a proper pmb in years.

As an insight to us all what does your PMB consist of and is this you leading with this or have you taking advice from your Society?


I have a hard time believing that the likes of sir Nige says much at all to a professional front rower

I can categorically confirm that prior to a match Nige does speak to the FR and does lay out his expectations, when I have seen him and other recently appointed RWC referees during their PMB's they do lay out what they expect and as most will have heard from numerous referees during a televised match that the referee says, " we spoke about this before the match" I can back that up.
 

Pegleg

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Every time the old pmb topic comes up it turns into multiple pages and lots of concern. I haven't done (what most here consider) a proper pmb in years. I would never go back to it unless it was mandated by law. I have yet to have one single captain ask me to speak longer and repeat the typical pmb script. Most thank me for not putting them through it.

I have a hard time believing that the likes of sir Nige says much at all to a professional front rower unless it's something he has been told to say eg - a clarification. They all study each other and watch volumes of film for crying out loud.

There comes a point when the pmb becomes "talking down" to them.

It's Saint Nige if you don't mind!
 

Drift


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Why indeed.

Has anyone here ever instructed a player to change boots or any studs because of illegalities?


Has anyone here every sent a player off, or dealt in another way, with a player who has put an illegal stud ( or piece of equiptment) on AFTER the check?


Whilst we are told we must do it. I'll cover my backside though.

Yep. I've told players they need to change their studs or find other boots.
 

OB..


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Yep. I've told players they need to change their studs or find other boots.
I presume the reason it does not often happen is that the players know there is going to be a boot check. The fact that it does occur occasionally means we are not just snapping our fingers to keep the elephants away.
 
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