have i dropped a bollo**

[evilad]

was involved today at a 10s tournament. blue restarted after a try.ball went long and bounced off the goalpost. yellow full back was the only person in the 22 so i called "play on". after a couple of seconds hesitation he picked up the ball took it back over the goal line and touched it down. i gave a 5m scrum to blue. on the basis that had the yellow player picked up the ball he had many options available to him.
what i am asking is would anyone else have called it different? i spoke to a couple of other refs who both said they would have done the same.

 

[OB..]

I see no problem. Although the post is in in-goal in one sense, the ball is not grounded in in-goal merely by touching it.

If the ball had landed in in-goal and then bounced out again, you would not have called it differently, would you?

 

[Ian_Cook]

Bollo** safely in place.

 

[Phil E]

If I read you right.

Blue kick off, ball bounces off post and lands in 22.
Yellow picks up the ball in the 22 and runs back into in-goal, where he touches down.

Yellow took it into in-goal, attacking scrum on the 5.

Sounds good to me. :hap:

 

[Davet]

As OB says if the ball had gone into in-goal, and then, thanks to the wonderfully unpredictable bounce our game produces, bounced out again, and been caught and re-carried backin then grounded...

You would have awarde a 5m scrum; so why is this any different?

Testicles secure.

 

[ballsie]

I always work on the principle of who took the ball over the try line so I guess you were spot on,*

 

[Simon Thomas]

ah ha - first Ballsie of autumn ! good to see you back m8.

evilad - decision quite correct

 

[evilad]

Thanks for all the replies,is good to know that I got at least one call right yesterday! It was that someone mentioned that they thought if the ball hit the post it was called as a dead ball, therefore options for yellow back at the halfway line. Is good to hear that everyone would have called it as I did.

 

[Davet]

I suspect they are thinking of the fact that a ball grounded against a post is considered grounded in-goal.

Note the operative word is - grounded - which means the ball must be placed on the ground as well as against the post, not simply strike the post.

This misconception is behind the claim of the player who stretches an arm from the back of a maul, holding the ball in his hand and then pushes it against the post 3 feet off the floor, claiming "TRY!!!"

It isn't.

"Not Grounded -Play on"

or possibly deem held up - depends on exact circs. eg is maul still moving?

 

[Staybound]

Thanks for all the replies,is good to know that I got at least one call right yesterday! It was that someone mentioned that they thought if the ball hit the post it was called as a dead ball, therefore options for yellow back at the halfway line. Is good to hear that everyone would have called it as I did.

There's always some joker who seems to think something.......

Seldom, in my experience, are they prepared to pick up a whistle and make decisions on the fly.

 

[Simonsky]

If the ball had landed in In-Goal but not gone dead-in-goal would yellow be entitled to a scrum from centre (or blue re-take) or could they opt for play on?

 

[Nick]

I suspect they are thinking of the fact that a ball grounded against a post is considered grounded in-goal.

Note the operative word is - grounded - which means the ball must be placed on the ground as well as against the post, not simply strike the post.

This misconception is behind the claim of the player who stretches an arm from the back of a maul, holding the ball in his hand and then pushes it against the post 3 feet off the floor, claiming "TRY!!!"

It isn't.

"Not Grounded -Play on"

or possibly deem held up - depends on exact circs. eg is maul still moving?

Interesting. Forced me to take another look at my law book and now my interpretation has been changed to be in line Davet's rather than the alleged player. There's even a photo in the book to back it up.

Thanks for that clarification!

Nick

 

[Dickie E]

If the ball had landed in In-Goal but not gone dead-in-goal would yellow be entitled to a scrum from centre (or blue re-take) or could they opt for play on?

Yellow player has 3 courses of action:

1. ground ball without delay - scrum/retake option
2. ground ball after delay - 22 drop out
3. don't ground ball - play on

"Delay" will be up to referee's assessment.

7's laws are different again. In this case yellow player has 2 courses of action:

1. ground ball (with or without delay) - FK at middle
2. don't ground ball - play on

 

[David J.]

I don't see a difference between 7s and 15s in the number of options.

If a 7s player delays grounding the ball, I would award a 22 drop out, just as 15s. The only sevens modification of Law 13.9 is to the (b) clause, not the (c) clause which specifies the no delay.

I think it's easier to view it as in both 15s and 7s a player has two options: ground the ball immediately or play on. If they choose the first, they get a "bonus" they wouldn't otherwise.

The unresolved (in my mind) issue, is whether the "delay counter" starts when the player picks the ball up or when he has the opportunity to pick it up (the player and the ball are in the in-goal, but the player hasn't touched it yet).

 

[Dickie E]

David,

7's is a lot about simplification so I assume that the "without delay" stipulation has been intentionally ommitted from 7's Law 13.9 below:

13.9 BALL GOES INTO THE IN-GOAL
(b) If the opposing team grounds the ball, or if they make it dead, or if the ball becomes dead by going into touch-in-goal or on or over the dead ball line a free kick is awarded to the non-offending team at the centre of the half way line.
Penalty: Free Kick at the centre of the half way line.

 

[Taff]

... The unresolved (in my mind) issue, is whether the "delay counter" starts when the player picks the ball up or when he has the opportunity to pick it up (the player and the ball are in the in-goal, but the player hasn't touched it yet).

If I was reffing in that case, I would take it from the time the player had the "opportunity to pick it up". Otherwise, you can imagine a defending player standing over the ball for what feels like ages :wait: but deliberately not touching it.

 

[OB..]

David,

7's is a lot about simplification so I assume that the "without delay" stipulation has been intentionally ommitted from 7's Law 13.9 below:

13.9 BALL GOES INTO THE IN-GOAL
(b) If the opposing team grounds the ball, or if they make it dead, or if the ball becomes dead by going into touch-in-goal or on or over the dead ball line a free kick is awarded to the non-offending team at the centre of the half way line.
Penalty: Free Kick at the centre of the half way line.

Unless you are going to assume that 13.9 (a) is also dropped for sevens, I see no justification for assuming 13.9 (c) has been dropped.

13.9 (b) must be re-stated because the FK is a significant change. The other parts of 13.9 do not need to be changed.

 

[Dickie E]

yes I stand corrected

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

yes I stand corrected

Stand really? Oh I thought when you were "corrected" you lay on the floor and had your scrotum stood on! My mistake! :wink:

 

[Dickie E]

only if OB agrees to wear red high heels :wow: