Heinekin Final

[jynxy]

i think the match officials were hoping that the yellow card was not going to return to the field at the end of the game, i know he was sent off at 72 minutes.

my point is that after the :yellow: timer which was reset 3 times was then removed :clap:

 

[Simon Thomas]

the officials (4th official usually at this level) have their own watches to handle sin and blood bin timing.

But what a fire-cracker of a match - and what a contrast to the Amlin final last night.

Two teams who attacked, defended, were disciplined with technicaly & skills play outstanding. O'Driscoll still has it, O'Brien is going to crucial for the Lions and Sexton now looks the part. Congrats to Leinster for making history.

And St Nigel was spot on with his early control, clear decisions and feel for the game. My small isue ewas he was too close to the running channels at times off the rucks, and the match was so fast he did get in the way two or three times.

 

[Account Deleted]

Was it a "red" card? I have not seen any of the game. So I'm waiting for a replay.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Late well after the ball was passed and done in frustration / fit of pique. It was a 'technical' tackle not aggressive but on balance, possibly RC but YC fair enough. Unlikely to be citing.

 

[Account Deleted]

On gwlad there are claims it was a "Red - tip".

 

[OB..]

Late well after the ball was passed and done in frustration / fit of pique.

For me that is enough to say it should have been Red (given that it fitted the criteria).

 

[Ian_Cook]

the officials (4th official usually at this level) have their own watches to handle sin and blood bin timing.

But what a fire-cracker of a match - and what a contrast to the Amlin final last night.

Two teams who attacked, defended, were disciplined with technicaly & skills play outstanding. O'Driscoll still has it, O'Brien is going to crucial for the Lions and Sexton now looks the part. Congrats to Leinster for making history.

And St Nigel was spot on with his early control, clear decisions and feel for the game. My small issue was he was too close to the running channels at times off the rucks, and the match was so fast he did get in the way two or three times.

Its why he gets run into more often that any other elite referee I know of.

I got up for this game, and wasn't disappointed. I was an absolute cracker, and well worth the early start.

 

[jynxy]

Well it only just got to the horizontal and there was no malice in the release, definite yellow

 

[Account Deleted]

Ta very much.

 

[OB..]

Well it only just got to the horizontal and there was no malice in the release, definite yellow

Lets look at the law[LAWS]Law 10.4 (j) Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player's feet are still off the ground such that the player's head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground is dangerous play.
Sanction: Penalty kick[/LAWS]

Lifting? Yes
Dropping or driving? Yes
Landing upper body first? Yes
Malice? not one of the criteria, but note this from Simon Thomas:

Late well after the ball was passed and done in frustration / fit of pique.

The basic problem is players lifting an opponents below the waist - there is always the danger that the player will hit the ground upper body first.

 

[Account Deleted]

Just watched it on the late show.

That was red. The directive conditions were met. Any lack of malice is irrelevent. Why are the elite guys ignoring the directive?

 

[Simon Thomas]

Just watched it on the late show.

Why are the elite guys ignoring the directive?

£ € $

 

[Account Deleted]

It's so wrong.

 

[Account Deleted]

Serious question Simon. Money from whom?

The IRB? If so why give the directive and then instruct the elite boys not to apply?

TV?

The Unions?

The Clubs?

 

[Simon Thomas]

Serious question Simon. Money from whom?

Left hand and right hand issuing instructions - personal and corporate agendas at every level and geography of the Elite 'professional' Game.

It is all about revenue vs rugby as a global sport - the TV money (which is supported by # of viewers, who watch exciting flowing rugby), sponsorship, and then ticket receipts & match day experience, plus franchising / merchandising. Within all of that each club, competition etc is a brand that has a value and an image - and consumers attitudes and reaction to the brand are measured, in the same way as we do it for P&G Shampoos.

So IRB (and RFU) have to balance the income generating against the evangelist spread of rugby (or even basic support - look at South Seas Islands situation). So mixded messages all over the place, IRB edicts and referee manager guidance & interpretations, and post event slapped wrists.

 

[Account Deleted]

Thanks for the answer Simon. It's just not acceptable is it Who's going to carry the can at the inevitable court case? Ref, clearly ignoring the directive, or faceless pen pusher in the offices?


So who's right and who's wrong Rolland for applying the directive correctly or the rest for "obeying orders"? I'm with Rolland!

Here's a gif link, Note how high the legs go and how it is a "throwing" action. RED RED RED!

http://prem1.hiboox.com/images/2012/diapof7025ab484272fa3538de1df39470ce4.gif

 

[Simon Thomas]

ATTR - thanks, useful video. Just been on phone about another Society isssue to an Elite/Panel match official, so asked.

Their view was that as the tackled player was taken through horizontal into tip tackle it was RC territory, but as the end of tackle saw the player hit the ground in a horizontal position (just I said) and not still vertical and being driven down, St Nige worked down to YC.

I would expect a RC every time for such a tackle at any community match up to an including Level 5.

 

[Mat 04]

I would expect a RC every time for such a tackle at any community match up to an including Level 5.

I don't see how you can justify the difference Simon? Are you saying that above level 5 you would criticise?

 

[Simon Thomas]

My experience is up to level 5, so I am NOT qualified to comment on Elite or Panel level interpretations. As I said I would give a RC as a referee and advise as an Assessor. However someone with Elite experieance has suggested why NO my have only a YC.

I am not a National Panel Referee / Coach Assessor, I do not attend RFU Panel Conference, I do not attend the weekly Elite or Panel de-briefs and so am not in a poistion to know what prtotocols & guidance they have or criticise NO's decision.

 

[Account Deleted]

We here we go again.Two law books and a total lack of honesty from the IRB.

Rolland was right and was "attacked" for being so. Now we have a succession of refs who can justify why Nigel and several others recently had "options".

The Law, when it comes to rugby, clearly is an ASS!

The Laws committee draw up the laws and rule on directives. No other group should have the power to over-rule them. The game at the elite level is becoming a joke.

If hey want more ball in play time to attract fans this is not the way to achieve it. Seeing some poor sod going to hospital and then spending therest of his life in a neck brace / wheel chair will turn people off not on. There are plenty of areas where the game can be quickened up without stiking two fingers up to player safety.