[Scrum] how long is "without delay"

[didds]

20.5 Throwing the ball into the scrum
No Delay. As soon as the front rows have come together, the scrum half must throw in the ball without delay. The scrum half must throw in the ball when told to do so by the referee.

Got asked for some advice by a chum who is coaching a fairly inexperienced squad (female FTR and maybe context).


Basically (he is an ex-winger) he has his pack scrummaging safely and squarely with ToP positions etc. BUT... there is another element of safety in that because they are so inexperienced, they have no cohesion at put in ie the don;t shove together and it ends up with a very unbalanced scrummage.

I will add here I've known this coach for at least a decade now, and fully trust his motives - he isn't some shady geezer trying to create power house scrums etc.

He asked if I had any advice with helping uncohesive scrums to firm up . i have had successes some while back with a cadence system, where on the engage the pack would chant one-two-three-four. Prearranged via code the ball would come in one a part of that cadence eg on the shout of 2. Thus all 8 know when they need to push and create cohesiveness.

That isn't so easy now of course, because the set packs are waiting for the ref to nod to the #9... so a cadence on set is of no use.

So my question is... this cadence takes less than two seconds. If it was triggered by ref nods, scrum half taps hooker's hand, hooker starts the call of 1-2-3-4, others pick up as soon as they hear it...

... would that be unreasonable in the context of law 20.5. In the strict letter of that law I'd be the first to say "no"... but I don't know how much "leeway" you guys have with "without delay"... and as above the delay such as it is is less than two seconds. the cadence isn't "raced" but neither is it drawn out.

I reiterate this isn't about creating power house scrums but about helping inexperienced players be safer. FTR, the squads I used this with when the scrum was live (so to speak) on engage, only needed it for maybe half a season until they had sorted themselves out - and were in one case an U14 scrum, and the other a grass roots side with a young squad).



cheers


didds

 

[Dickie E]

I'd be OK with it but suggest his captain check with ref at pre-match.

Generally, "without delay" means without wasting time (as opposed to "immediately"). So, for instance, if a hooker needs a few seconds to sort out the lineout calls with his team mates I wouldn't consider that as an undue delay.

 

[talbazar]

100% with Dickie on this one.
1. Let the ref know that for safety / cohesion reason, the pack will be using that technique.

2. To me the issue is not about time, remove the out-loud 1-2-3-4 and it is pretty much what every scrum is doing. So timing should be fairly similar as a normal scrum.
As you mentioned: maybe an extra second.

Cheers,
Pierre.

 

[didds]

yeah... the cadence wold in theory of course be better off in the head but experience here shows somehow it works better with shouts at the beginning at least. And the oppo don't know which part of the cadence the ball is coming in on of course.

didds

 

[crossref]

for me I wouldn't care about chanting, and it all sounds OK.
delaying the put in is an issue for the ref if it causes the scrum to lose stability, in which case I'd tell the #9 to put it in sharply.

 

[ChrisR]

What isn't in the OP is the level of experience of the opponent. Unless the opponents are a well drilled cohesive scrum then a variable cadence isn't necessary, just something simple to get the shove all starting at the same time.

Because the referee won't signal the SH to put it in until the scrum is S, S & S that means the start of the cadence is the big variable and only the SH will be aware of it. That means the SH has to call the cadence or .....

This is something I've taught at different levels and has worked. A bit more complicated but effective .....

As the scrum forms up and 'sets' but before the refs OK signal the SH stands to the left of the tunnel facing her own goal, ball at waist level. At the ref's signal the SH pivots to face the tunnel but keeps the ball at waist level. When the hooker sees the SH's right foot come square to the tunnel she (the hooker) starts her chant: "Steady .. Ready .. Heeeeave". On "Ready" the SH drops to the squat and the ball comes in on "Heeeeave". "Heeeeave" is called out by all members of the scrum, tightening the abs and intimidating the opponents. Execution is more important than the element of surprise.

I don't think this would constitute 'delay' and the requirement is not 'immediately'.

 

[didds]

Like that lots ChrisR - nice visual trigger

didds