[Law] How would you deal with this one?

Pegleg

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[B said:
crossref[/B]]

Have you got a copy to refer to ?
It actually makes quite interesting reading. I should look it up again but from memory one problem with it is that the definition of a tip tackle used is no longer the same as the description in the Law.


Can you say how the law book defines / in the past defined a "tip", or indeed a "spear", tackle?
.

I not that you say; "...it makes interesting reading..." I assume, therefore, you do have a copy and could post the one to which you refer and could post here.
 

crossref


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.

I not that you say; "...it makes interesting reading..." I assume, therefore, you do have a copy and could post the one to which you refer and could post here.

I meant did you have a copy of the disciplinary report that you mentioned that referred to the memo
The memo is here on this site in the Wiki under IRB communications.

The definition of a tip tackle in the memo is different from the current law now .. 10.4j
 
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crossref


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This where the 2009 memo should be
http://laws.worldrugby.org/?domain=9&guideline=3

No doubt it's an accidental omission .
But what always intrigues me is edit done the 2011 memo ... If you look at the pdf that Phil provided you will see that the 2011 memo referred to the 2009 memo, but in the version on the website that reference has been removed ...
 

Pegleg

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Firstly the law has not changed at all certaily since 2010 10.4(e) has remained the same.

Moving on, Phil's link refers to one type of dangerous tackle not the only type.

The reference to the disciplinary hearing was not mine so no I do not have a copy.

To my knowledge the memo Phil gave the link to has not been overwritten.

So may I ask again: How has the law changed?
 

crossref


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Firstly the law has not changed at all certaily since 2010 10.4(e) has remained the same.

Moving on, Phil's link refers to one type of dangerous tackle not the only type.

The reference to the disciplinary hearing was not mine so no I do not have a copy.

To my knowledge the memo Phil gave the link to has not been overwritten.

So may I ask again: How has the law changed?

Pegleg
10.4 J. deals with tip tackles . I don't have a 2009 Law book, but no doubt OB.. will be along shortly to tell is whether 10.4 J has changed since then

On the 2011 memo .. in Phil's PDF the 2011 memo references rhe 2009 memo. On the WR website the sectiin on the 2011 memo no longer has that reference.

I suspect that a problem with the 2009 memo is that it doesn't match 10.4j and that's why it has been deemphasized .
 

Pegleg

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10.4 (j) Glad you mentiond it refers to lifitng a play and dropping / driving into the ground not specifically a tackle (of course) It was introduced in 2009 and the wording in all subsequent law books has remained unchanged.

Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst
that player’s feet are still off the ground such that the player’s head and/or upper body
come into contact with the ground first is dangerous play.
Penalty: Penalty Kick

It specifically states that ALL instances where a player is "tipped" and driven / dropped are always dangerous and that is no longer open to interpretation.

Also specific sanctions are stipulated in the memo. The Law, however, has not changed at all between 2009 and now.
 

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So the memo and the Law have always been inconsistent?
Shrug , perhaps that's the reason why the memo seems to have faded ..
 

Pegleg

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Explain what you see as the inconsistency.
 

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Getting back to BFG original point, I think that Foden is half heartedly serious/joking so in this instance as he knows its going to be confirmed by the TMO.

If in a real game where we dont have TMOs or ARs a player wilfully tries to deceive you I think it would warrant a YC.
 

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Explain what you see as the inconsistency.

pegleg, I feel like you have brought some manner of axe to grind!

First inconsistency, you point out yourself: the 2009 memo talks about tackles, and this being a type of dangerous tackle. but then when you turn to the Law book and look at the Law on dangerous tackles 10.4.e , tip tackles are missing.

Second inconsistency is the different wording in the dfinitions

memo
[LAWS]tackles involving a player being lifted off the ground and tipped horizontally and were then either forced or dropped to the ground are illegal and constitute dangerous play.[/LAWS]

10.4.j
[LAWS]Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player's feet are still off the ground such that the player's head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground is dangerous play.[/LAWS]

does it matter that the definition is different? After all they aren't that different and they are both driving at the same thing.

Well, yes defintions do matter - recall at the RWC every single RC and citing for tip tackles under 10.4.j was rejected by the disciplinary panel who said the tackle didn't fit the definition of 10.4.j, and the players were processed under 10.4.e instead (even though the tackles certainly didn't fit the criteria under 10.4.e!)
 
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