I always penalise for this, am i correct?

[Dave Elliott]

So tackle complete, ruck formed. The ball is deep in, and instead of the 9 digging it out with their foot, the tackled player pushes its out for them. I always blow for this, as I deem this hands in the ruck. The player has placed the ball, the ruck has formed and they then push it back.

But re reading the laws this morning, am i correct

Make the ball available so that play can continue by releasing, passing or pushing the ball in any direction except forward. They may place the ball in any direction.

What are your thoughts?

 

[BikingBud]

You are looking at Tackle, Law 14:7.a


Immediately, any later is handling on the floor,

But you should also consider Ruck, Law:

Ruck 15:11:

Once a ruck has formed, no player may handle the ball unless they were able to get their hands on the ball before the ruck formed and stay on their feet.

This provides for jacklers, Flats and Shanks covered some of this the other night on ITV, although interestingly the demos showed people stepping over the tackled player to adopt a strong position over the ball before lifting, something we don't generally see in top level, lots of head below hips and overreaching.

Also show case allow this pushing back as well as the SH manipulating the ball with foot so the ball maker's name can be seen on the tv and then waiting for 2 or 3 stray albatross to lean on pretending it is a ruck and then the SH drags the ball back a little more line it up again before they eventually pick and then execute a pointless box kick before the opposition catch it and repeat, ad nauseam.

Must be in the name of keeping the game attractive or some other bizarre excuse for deviating from the laws as written

 

[chbg]

So tackle complete, ruck formed. The ball is deep in, and instead of the 9 digging it out with their foot, the tackled player pushes its out for them. I always blow for this, as I deem this hands in the ruck. The player has placed the ball, the ruck has formed and they then push it back.

But re reading the laws this morning, am i correct

Make the ball available so that play can continue by releasing, passing or pushing the ball in any direction except forward. They may place the ball in any direction.

What are your thoughts?

If the 'competition' for the ball in the ruck is effectively over, then it is better for all to get the ball back into some other form of play. The other option is to send the backs off for a ciggie until the referee blows for a scrum (19.1). If the opposition are still competing for the ball, then rigorously enforce the restrictions on players on the ground.

 

[crossref]

Yes, what @chbg said ..

 

[didds]

its because rucks are rarely real rucks. They are just piles of bodies all over the place, which cannot then be moved PAST the ball.

 

[BikingBud]

If the 'competition' for the ball in the ruck is effectively over, then it is better for all to get the ball back into some other form of play. The other option is to send the backs off for a ciggie until the referee blows for a scrum (19.1). If the opposition are still competing for the ball, then rigorously enforce the restrictions on players on the ground.

Is that the chicken or the egg?

Competition at rucks does not really exist in line with the laws so they don't get applied or it doesn't exist because they are not applied?

Nobody stays on their feet.
Bodies arrive from all angles and seal off
Jacklers get half a second and once that's missed then counter rucking seldom occurs

Don't forget the backs also need time to check their hair gel and reapply the fake tan!

 

[BikingBud]

Apologies Fiji counter ruck Australia @56 min but then knock on

 

[chbg]

Quite often happens in my games - both!

 

[Phil E]

If the 'competition' for the ball in the ruck is effectively over, then it is better for all to get the ball back into some other form of play. The other option is to send the backs off for a ciggie until the referee blows for a scrum (19.1). If the opposition are still competing for the ball, then rigorously enforce the restrictions on players on the ground.

Exactly this look for reasons not to blow the whistle and keep the game flowing.

 

[Stu10]

Is that the chicken or the egg?

Competition at rucks does not really exist in line with the laws so they don't get applied or it doesn't exist because they are not applied?

Nobody stays on their feet.
Bodies arrive from all angles and seal off
Jacklers get half a second and once that's missed then counter rucking seldom occurs

Don't forget the backs also need time to check their hair gel and reapply the fake tan!

This may be somewhat true, but I still know when the competition is over, when there is only one team coming out with the ball, the opportunity to jackal has passed, so let's just get the ball out and play on.

I will only penalise for not releasing if the opposition get hands on the ball and try to lift it; and I will only penalise attacking hands in the ruck if not immediate AND the action was clearly to prevent a jackal or prevent access to the ball after a good counter ruck