IRE v FRA: to card or not to card?

[irishref]

It was an eventful game alright, so I'd like to put another discussion point on yesterday's game out there.

I don't have a time on the game, it was near the end of the first half, but I think with my description you won't need highlights if you didn't see the game.

France had been killing Irish ball in their own 22 repeatedly and the ref gave their captain the team warning and told him to tell them. A couple of phases later, just inside the French 22, Ireland have set up a ruck. A French player was slowly walking back to get on his side but found himself just outside of the Irish 9-10 channel, so he stopped moving.

The Irish scrum half saw this and threw the ball at him, in my opinion to milk the yellow card that France had just been warned about. The ref gave just the penalty but no card, I didn't hear what he said since it wasn't clear on the french tv broadcast I was watching.

For what it's worth, I agreed with the ref. Despite the team warning they were on, in my opinion you simply don't try to force the ref into giving a card by such a blatant action.

 

[Flish]

Didn't see it, but personally I can't see me ever issuing a milked card like that, same with my tolerance for players appealing for cards. If it's a pen technically then a pen is best you'll get.

 

[beckett50]

Haven't seen the game, but from your description it does sound as if the Irish #9 was trying to force the issue with the referee. One could argue the French player could have crouched down, got on the deck or simply taken a few steps further back to ensure he was out of the channel.

However, on the basis of Equity the PK was the correct call and no YC.

 

[Northamptonian]

I thought he got the decision spot on under the circumstances. It was a contrived move by Murray, and it wasn't great to see 4 Irish players around the referee immediately afterwards. The French player wasn't being cynical, he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[Zebra1922]

I thought he got the decision spot on under the circumstances. It was a contrived move by Murray, and it wasn't great to see 4 Irish players around the referee immediately afterwards. The French player wasn't being cynical, he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I agree with this. Although a warning had been issued about offending, it related to several maul and ruck penalties near the line. yes there was a French lazy runner in the wrong place at the wrong time, but I did not view it as cynical or deliberate. The Irish SH did deliberately throw at him to milk a penalty, however the ref would have been well within his rights to blow for offside anyway as the Fresh player was clearly interfering and took a really poor route back to his defensive line.

Overall I though this was refereed very well.

 

[nhughes]

Must say I don't like players doing this to contrive a card, it's a bit like footballers waving imaginary cards at the ref after a foul encouraging a real card. France should have had a yellow specifically on their tight head who repeatedly infringed close to the goal line but in this case I think Murray was being a bit flippent.

 

[Wedgie]

I thought the ref got it correct, as well. The French player got up off the ground - actually looking a little groggy - and started wandering back towards his off side line. After maybe only a step, or even half a step he realised that he was about to walk into the 9-10 channel and took half step back trying to keep out of the way, at which point Murray fired the ball into his chest when many (all?) potential Green receivers were not obstructed by Blue's position.

If it happened at my level, I might consider just shouting play on....

That said, I though France rather lucky to survive until 67 mins before they received a YC...

 

[didds]

Overall I though this was refereed very well.

I thought the ref looked out fo his depth. Surely far too many PKs in the red zone before the eventual YC?

didds

 

[Zebra1922]

I thought the ref looked out fo his depth. Surely far too many PKs in the red zone before the eventual YC?

didds

Just shows how people see things differently, overall I though he had a good game. I really liked his exceptionally calm approach to everything, I think this had an overall impact on the game, where there were few flashpoints or handbag incidents.

 

[Pinky]

Murray had previous doing this. I don't like it - it smack of trying to get a soft penalty or player carded. I have seen one ref a year or so ago decline the penalty as he felt it was deliberate by the 9 and then give the scrum put in to the opposition (probably a bit too much) on the basis of being the last team to play the ball.

 

[Pinky]

Oh, also felt that the first offence at the scrum the ref YC the French replacement tight head was green 16 standing up!

 

[Phil E]

Oh, also felt that the first offence at the scrum the ref YC the French replacement tight head was green 16 standing up!

Standing up, or Driven up by Blue?

That's the questions you have to ask....its not always obvious.

 

[irishref]

I thought the ref looked out fo his depth. Surely far too many PKs in the red zone before the eventual YC?

didds

I thought he did some things very well but indeed I also had my doubts about the number of offences in really strong attacking positions for Ireland and the lack of a card until very late in the game.

 

[Pinky]

Standing up, or Driven up by Blue?

That's the questions you have to ask....its not always obvious.

I agree, but the blue FR were struggling to keep the scrum up, and green 16 went up as green applied pressure, and his head came out forst, so I would have been quite confident at awarding a penalty to blue for that. However to some extent that would not have been equitable given the difficulty the blue scrum had been in before.

 

[L'irlandais]

Conor Murray is always doing this and stricter refs have told him off for doing so. He does it when he feels the match referee is not penalising material stuff. (Childish of him I know.) Both teams were actually getting frustrated with the referee’s lack of decisiveness, and handbags came out more than once.

 

[Treadmore]

It was an eventful game alright, so I'd like to put another discussion point on yesterday's game out there.

I don't have a time on the game, it was near the end of the first half, but I think with my description you won't need highlights if you didn't see the game.

France had been killing Irish ball in their own 22 repeatedly and the ref gave their captain the team warning and told him to tell them. A couple of phases later, just inside the French 22, Ireland have set up a ruck. A French player was slowly walking back to get on his side but found himself just outside of the Irish 9-10 channel, so he stopped moving.

The Irish scrum half saw this and threw the ball at him, in my opinion to milk the yellow card that France had just been warned about. The ref gave just the penalty but no card, I didn't hear what he said since it wasn't clear on the french tv broadcast I was watching.

For what it's worth, I agreed with the ref. Despite the team warning they were on, in my opinion you simply don't try to force the ref into giving a card by such a blatant action.

At the time I felt Murray was the guilty party (9.7(c)): he could have passed anywhere he liked or run with it or kick. Was disappointing to see such a contrivance rewarded.