IRL v FRA - Home Broadcaster Advantage?

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Regarding the Irish try in the corner at 20:11 on the game clock…

WB calls the TMO, same couple of angles shown - not clear & obvious so on-field decision of try stands. The TMO showed this:
TMO Angle.jpg

Yes, borderline, so not C&O. All OK.

Sexton attempts the conversion, and once done (so can't undo the decision) when all of a sudden we the get a replay from a different angle which I think is a better angle and to me shows the ball carriers foot just on the ground in touch.
Replay Angle.jpg

Anyone else notice that? We can still debate if this is C&O, but why wasn't this angle shown to WB?

Also - loved the honest reaction from Lowe:
Honest Response.jpg

*Edited to add screenshots
 
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BikingBud


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I felt that his toe was on the ground as it passed behind the flag from the shown videos, you can see the shadow merging to nothing.
 

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I felt that his toe was on the ground as it passed behind the flag from the shown videos, you can see the shadow merging to nothing.
I agree, but I think that first angle isn't conclusive enough and could have have just as easily supported an on-field decision of player in touch.

The second angle to me is a better angle and shows contact - but why was it held back until after the decision? Was the broadcaster providing the streams or did the TMO miss this one?
 

BikingBud


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I'm also having difficulty with the amount of activity in front of the ball:
  • Joining rucks well in front of the hindmost feet and at acute angles.
  • "Dummy" runners engaging and blocking defenders
Both of these were material in Ireland's try from the kick return.
 

Decorily

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The first one certainly could be seen either way to be fair.
The second appears to me to be conclusive that foot is in touch.
Both angles were shown on screen during the review process but I have no idea what angles the TMO saw.
 

Decorily

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Seemingly the production team ( is that what they're called? ) was an independent 6N contracted team and the TMO had access to ALL footage.
Whether they watched it all or not is debatable!
 

Decorily

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At risk of hijacking the thread....
Any thoughts on the YC?
Definite RC for me!
 

Rich_NL

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The first one certainly could be seen either way to be fair.
The second appears to me to be conclusive that foot is in touch.
Both angles were shown on screen during the review process but I have no idea what angles the TMO saw.
Pretty sure the rear view wasn't shown - my son and I were discussing the foot in touch, I thought it was (from the shadow) but not C&O, while the rear view is.
 

BikingBud


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We can debate C&O but to me the real issue is not using the available angles, you know you have a camera pointing down the touch line but you choose not to review it as part of the decision making process :cautious:how is this addressed?
 

Decorily

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We can debate C&O but to me the real issue is not using the available angles, you know you have a camera pointing down the touch line but you choose not to review it as part of the decision making process :cautious:how is this addressed?
Who choose not to review it?
 

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The first one certainly could be seen either way to be fair.
The second appears to me to be conclusive that foot is in touch.
Both angles were shown on screen during the review process but I have no idea what angles the TMO saw.
Interesting - the feed I saw didn’t show the rear view during the TMO review (Peacock in the US but was a UK feed however we don’t get any details on the commentators or the half-time punditry)
 

Decorily

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Interesting - the feed I saw didn’t show the rear view during the TMO review (Peacock in the US but was a UK feed however we don’t get any details on the commentators or the half-time punditry)
Of course Ireland isn't in the UK but I presume you knew that! !
 

belladonna

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Who choose not to review it?
I thought they just said that was all the angles they had (if I recall correctly)? Bit suspicious this other angle popped up at half time 🤔
 

crossref


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Half time may have been the first occasion that the TV viewers saw the angle, but the TMO would have had all all angles available right from the beginning. TMO replays are independent of what's broadcast
 

BikingBud


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@belladonna not half time, hence my concern :mad:
See time stamps on post#1 for match clock.
  • Time at touchdown: 20:11 with in my mind right foot on the ground,
  • Nevertheless time with C&O foot in touch: 21:34, after conversion had occurred,
  • Image showing Lowes grimacing he knows he got away with it: 21:39.
As the other angle popped up pretty much straight after the kick and appears to have been shown on the stadium screen, otherwise Lowes would not know to grimace, it must have been available when the review was occurring. It's not been sent in by some punter with the phone cam has it?

Moreover, when the TMO knows what camera positions and angles they have and they decide not to even check to see if there is any evidence from that angle this has to be viewed as a significant systemic failure to understand the way the system is set up and use all evidence.

We all want to reduce breaks in the game and keep the speed up but when their was enough doubt from the first view that foot was in touch then use of the full suite of cameras has to occur, only after that can a decision of C&O be sustained.

Perhaps someone more in the know could advise how the camera positions are decided and how the team of 4 brief and prepare for these events. As we saw, surely the camera angle from the opposite in goal, see pink highlight, provides excellent potential for a decisive view, if it is obscured so be it but when you discount it before reviewing it that has to be addressed, matches and championships can be lost on such decisions. England v South Africa 2007 RWC final.

TMO Angle.jpg
 
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