Joubert

Ian_Cook


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A+ for being politically correct (since his team won).

Not Kelvin Deaker.

Win or lose, he will call it the same way, as he sees it.
 

Ian_Cook


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Actually, there is a very interesting quote from the article by Kelvin Deaker...

For me, the best referees at this tournament were the fittest ones - the ones who got to every breakdown and stood over it, not refereeing from a distance. The games with the pile-ups and the controversies - South Africa v Samoa and South Africa v Australia in particular - were the ones where the referee wasn't at the breakdown.


IMO, this looks like a swipe at both Nigel Owens and Bryce Lawrence. He has picked out these two games as examples of where the referees concerned were too slow to get to the breakdown, so if I read Kelvin correctly, he is saying that these two aren't fit enough for this level.

Interesting to say the least.
 

Dixpat

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Actually, there is a very interesting quote from the article by Kelvin Deaker...

For me, the best referees at this tournament were the fittest ones - the ones who got to every breakdown and stood over it, not refereeing from a distance. The games with the pile-ups and the controversies - South Africa v Samoa and South Africa v Australia in particular - were the ones where the referee wasn't at the breakdown.


IMO, this looks like a swipe at both Nigel Owens and Bryce Lawrence. He has picked out these two games as examples of where the referees concerned were too slow to get to the breakdown, so if I read Kelvin correctly, he is saying that these two aren't fit enough for this level.

Interesting to say the least.

Shouldn't be a surprise as those on this site rated these 2 refs in the bottom 4 for fitness
 

TheBFG


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Crap. You can't seriously suggest that it was deliberate.

Have a look at it at full speed. Its purely accidental.

Ian, chill out, you bite far too easily :wink: Going to have to start calling you Capt. Cook (one eyed pirate - not sure if he had one eye but you know what i mean!)

God forbid should anyone suggest the AB's get up to no good!

Anyone seen the video of RMc on the end of a gouge, not nice, i assume it's been missed as no citing i'm aware of?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hneJ8Ws8Yuc&feature=youtu.be
 
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Ian_Cook


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Ian, chill out, you bite far too easily :wink: Going to have to start calling you Capt. Cook (one eyed pirate - not sure if he had one eye but you know what i mean!)

God forbid should anyone suggest the AB's get up to no good!

Anyone seen the video of RMc on the end of a gouge, not nice, i assume it's been missed as no citing i'm aware of?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hneJ8Ws8Yuc&feature=youtu.be


Mine's better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0hXBoyGm7Y

Thread about it here.... pretty ugly incident

http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread...-gouge-confirmed&p=182714&posted=1#post182714

He's pretty used to always being a target for "special attention"... comes with the territory.
 

TheBFG


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talbazar


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I'm surprised no one actually compared CJ performance to a lower level rugby game.
I mean, come to think of it, if a referee leave all these infringement at break down unpunished (for both sides) at the level I'm ref'ing, I can guaranty you players would take the law in their hands... And that wouldn't be pretty.
In the above video you can see Yachvili at one moment pointing a player on the wrong side to CJ, then CJ awards a scrum blue for ball non-playable and you can see Yachvili just raising his arms in frustration... At the level I ref, this kind of frustration would in a few minutes transform to proper booting and punches and end up in a blood bath...

In short, CJ was lucky he was on a RWC final with professional players... Referee that way in any low level local league, and it's a guarantied blood bath!
 

OB..


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I'm surprised no one actually compared CJ performance to a lower level rugby game.
Why? You cannot referee them the same way.

In the above video you can see Yachvili at one moment pointing a player on the wrong side to CJ, then CJ awards a scrum blue for ball non-playable and you can see Yachvili just raising his arms in frustration
If the ball was unplayable,then it is hard to argue that the offside was material.
At the level I ref, this kind of frustration would in a few minutes transform to proper booting and punches and end up in a blood bath...
But it was not a game at your level.

In short, CJ was lucky he was on a RWC final with professional players!
Lucky? :confused::confused:

I am not going to argue that he did or did not have a good game by the standards expected at that level, but it was not just luck that got him there. :biggrin:
 

Dixie


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If the ball was unplayable,then it is hard to argue that the offside was material.
I think the suggestion was that the offside player, by being on the wrong side, was himself making the ball unplayable ...
 

talbazar


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I think the suggestion was that the offside player, by being on the wrong side, was himself making the ball unplayable ...
Yup, that's what I meant...

OB, ok, I guess I wrongly expressed myself: nothing to do with luck, I agree. CJ is one the top refs as of today.
I was just saying that if someone refs that way in most amateur games it'd be a blood bath.

And agree one probably won't ref pro players the same way as a social game. But does that allow one to let it free for all just because one knows pros won't throw punches all over?
 

OB..


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I think the suggestion was that the offside player, by being on the wrong side, was himself making the ball unplayable ...
How? Unplayable basically means too many bodies over it. How does an offside player cause that?
If you mean tactically unplayable eg he was in the scrum half's way, then of course it was material, but was that the case?
 

OB..


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And agree one probably won't ref pro players the same way as a social game. But does that allow one to let it free for all just because one knows pros won't throw punches all over?
Let's not go to extremes. Surely nobody is arguing that all offences ought to be sanctioned, whether material or not? On the other hand some offences (full back knocking on with no defenders near) are always blown up.

If he failed to deal with a material offence he was obviously in the wrong. Beyond that are we not just criticising his judgement of materiality?
 

L'irlandais

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I'm still waiting for someone to post a list of 17 clear penalty chances for France that Joubert chose to ignore. :smile:
Hi OB,
This Irish commentators' discussion from "The Breakdown" lists several missed penalties.
I don't agree with all of what's said by these guys, since their job description requires them to stir things. However I do question the "play on" after Kano (off his feet) throw's the ball forward, it's then recovered by Black 16. See clip for exact circumstances.
 
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