Keith earls first try

[Jz558]

I saw most of the Edinburgh v Munster game at the weekend but didn't see Keith Earls' 1st try. Having seen it for the first time today I'm surprised it hasn't warranted comment on here. The Edinburgh scrum half has a penalty awarded against him for a deliberate knock-on, Conor Murray then takes out the Blue 9 and rolls him on his head despite him not having the ball and in the gap created, Earls takes a quick tap penalty and scores. Just wondering how I would have dealt with this as a referee (I've decided but am interested in other opinions)

 

[L'irlandais]

The Edinburgh camp mentioned it to the match referee straight away. Perhaps the ref was exasperated having told Black 9 to stay several times and been ignored. Edinburgh were caught napping, you have to be ready for a quickly taken FK.

 

[L'irlandais]

Conor Murray talks about it 5 minutes into this interview

 

[thepercy]

Certainly E9 is in the pocket and offside, then intentionally knocks on. Especially since it is so close to his own goal line he should have been looking at a YC. Then M9 retaliates, plays E9 without the ball, after the whistle. Its hard to see in this clip, but I don't think E9 lands on his head, but the combination of other FP offenses by M9 would be YC worthy. PK reversed, no QT, No Try, No 9s for 10 minutes.

 

[Flish]

I think the foul play looks worse than it really is, however foul play trumps the deliberate knock on. Not sure I would be quick enough to blow before the try was scored, but would make my life easier if I could - no try either way.

 

[mcroker]

Also surprised the 9 was required to use it under those conditions. Hard to see who is guilt my of scrum going down - but I would have thought a reset was appropriate.

 

[Decorily]

I think the foul play looks worse than it really is, however foul play trumps the deliberate knock on. Not sure I would be quick enough to blow before the try was scored, but would make my life easier if I could - no try either way.

In this situation especially, with a TMO etc, why would you even try to blow before the try is scored. Best to hold off , consider all options and then make a decision. Easy to disallow the try but not possible to go the other way ie. award the try if you discover that it is warranted but you've blown before it's 'scored'.

 

[didds]

i cant keep up with the protocols but its seems logical to me to let play flow, the "try" is scored then just go back to the TMO and have the discussion about any reasons not to award the try etc.

different for you guys on a weekend at community level obvs.

didds

 

[Jz558]

Agree with most of the comments, allow the phase to play out then review. No try for me and reverse the penalty. I’d also want a really close look at how the Edinburgh 9 landed to decide whether a card is appropriate for the Munster 9.

 

[L'irlandais]

Did you not listen to Conor Murray say, he shouldn’t have retaliated, but the cynical fashion in which an offside player slapped the ball out of his hands mde him see red. He then went on to say, E9 landed on Conor Murray’s head so he came off worse from the act of retaliation.

Pascal Gaüzère was letting both sides get away with murder at the breakdown. (Up until the point he reversed a penalty for an off the ball hit by 1Blue)

First infringement is a late tackle by red on blue [Marshall on van der Walt],” says Gaüzère, “and then the reaction by one blue [Schoeman]. He charged the player off the ball, so I reverse the penalty. Penalty against one blue.”

The number of turnovers was phenomenal, but it stopped all flow, which ultimately cost Edinburgh the game. Stats guru may have the actual number of turnovers, if someone has the time or inclination.

 

[Flish]

In this situation especially, with a TMO etc, why would you even try to blow before the try is scored. Best to hold off , consider all options and then make a decision. Easy to disallow the try but not possible to go the other way ie. award the try if you discover that it is warranted but you've blown before it's 'scored'.

Oh I wouldn’t in that situation, but that’s clear foul play and on my own its easier to blow for that and manage that, than a ‘no try’ with all those extra emotions too

 

[Wedgie]

In what way is Blue 9 offside?

 

[L'irlandais]

one foot beyond the ball?

 

[Decorily]

one foot beyond the ball?

Recently had a 9 ask me why he needed to be 2 feet behind the ball at a scrum. I replied "You don't...you just need to have your 2 feet behind " ..... I have since changed to warning 9s to have 'both' feet behind as opposed to 'two feet behind '!!

 

[mcroker]

I don't think the offside laws at a scrum really consider this situation (collapsed scrum, no flankers to protect 9), which is presumably because playing on with a scrum-collapse is specifically prohibited in Law (19.25).
With the scrum collapsed the winning 9 loses the protection of this clause (19.30a) "Takes up a position with both feet behind the ball and close to the scrum but not in the space between the flanker and the number eight"

Give the position blue took - I think a call of "use-it or reset" would have been more appropriate than just expecting red to play-on.

It's also hard to see the scrum properly with the position the ref. has taken, but it looks to me like the Red LH was not pushing straight and caused the collapse.