[In-goal] Kick From Own In-goal

[DocY]

Its an obvious conclusion. I would suggest that brainfarts and incompetence may also play a part, but I'm being kind maybe



Could be that would work in Wales of course, but my perception from cricket here in England in leagues where clubs are expected to put up an umpire every weekend for them to ump at other fixtures than their "own" clubs, is that this struggles as people don't want to umpire anywhere but their own club - they don't want to spend their Sat/Sun afternoons & early evenings spent with strangers. Then you maybe end up people grudgingly doing it, and possibly even the least able umpires as people get emotionally blackmailed into it to help their club, but they actually aren't very good umpires. The rule creates as many problems as it solves.

That's not to say it isn't worth pursuing as a concept of course, just that the end result may not be as meaningful as hoped

didds

I expect we'd see a similar problem in Wales - (most of?) these guys probably don't really want to referee and just see it as something they have to do as part of their coaching. I reckon their attitudes would be similar to the umpires'.

Some sort of monitoring might help - if clubs, or particular coaches, become known to be less than impartial an experienced referee or advisor (both of whom are likely already in high demand) could be sent along to have a look. Not sure if it would be practical or if it would really help if they are actually biased though.

 

[crossref]

it's not actually that difficult for clubs to recruit and train refs -- -- you talk to all the age groups, talking to the Mums and Dads on the touchline and identifying, encouraging, training and generally supporting those who are interested (ie the same way you recruit coaches, asst coaches, first aiders, team managers, tour organisers and everyone else)

I started as a Dad-who-refs, I wasn't one of the coaching team, lots of people start like that.

Yes, they often want to stay within the club, as they are there to support the son/daughter who plays, and they may never join the society, but they will ref other age groups.

 

[Staffs_Ref]

it's not actually that difficult for clubs to recruit and train refs

Sorry, I can't agree with that based on my own experience.

 

[Pegleg]

Sorry, I can't agree with that based on my own experience.

Agreed. The problem identified everywhere is parents generally don't care what the coach etc go through. They turn up at the last minute and drvie off with the coach and his "team" putting everything away getting home hours after the rest.

 

[Pegleg]

Its an obvious conclusion. I would suggest that brainfarts and incompetence may also play a part, but I'm being kind maybe



Could be that would work in Wales of course, but my perception from cricket here in England in leagues where clubs are expected to put up an umpire every weekend for them to ump at other fixtures than their "own" clubs, is that this struggles as people don't want to umpire anywhere but their own club - they don't want to spend their Sat/Sun afternoons & early evenings spent with strangers. Then you maybe end up people grudgingly doing it, and possibly even the least able umpires as people get emotionally blackmailed into it to help their club, but they actually aren't very good umpires. The rule creates as many problems as it solves.

That's not to say it isn't worth pursuing as a concept of course, just that the end result may not be as meaningful as hoped

didds

Yes you're beign kind. Also I doubt it will happen. but the bias will kill the kids game if they are not careful.

 

[crossref]

Sorry, I can't agree with that based on my own experience.

that's interesting then - because round where I am the experience in our club doesn't seem that unusual. In my club all our age groups from U13 upwards have a someone who refs, who is not the head coach [though may also be an asst coach, of course] and when my son was going through the age groups the other clubs we played were similar and over time I got to know quite a few of the other refs (some of whom are now in the society).

 

[Rich_NL]

I think it depends on the area - if you're in an area where rugby is relatively popular, there will be a lot more parents with sufficient experience/basic knowledge that the barrier to refereeing in order to help out the kids is quite low.

Here in Holland is the opposite extreme, most parents are start off largely or completely unfamiliar with the sport, they view refereeing as some sort of arcane magic, and just about get that the ball goes backwards but something about kicking. The idea of picking up the whistle would be somewhere between surprising and ridiculous.

 

[Staffs_Ref]

that's interesting then - because round where I am the experience in our club doesn't seem that unusual. In my club all our age groups from U13 upwards have a someone who refs, who is not the head coach [though may also be an asst coach, of course] and when my son was going through the age groups the other clubs we played were similar and over time I got to know quite a few of the other refs (some of whom are now in the society).

My own experience would be more along the lines of:

All the age groups have someone who can referee in theory. This is because they have been press ganged into doing a basic refereeing course to satisfy the club's stated public objective of having a "qualified" referee at all levels.

These "referees" are then reticent at best about actually being the man in the middle and will generally find any excuse going not to actually have to do it.

This attitude isn't totally surprising. A basic RFU refereeing course doesn't in itself really equip you to be a competent referee. Nor does it prepare you for the fact that instead of being one of the numerous referees on the sidelines, you are now the single referee, out there on your own and subject to the opinions of those on the sidelines, who know better than you and wonder why such an incompetent fool has been let loose with a whistle.

If recruiting (and retaining) referees were that easy, then we wouldn't have a situation where societies the length and breadth of the country are short of numbers. There will be a solution to this problem, but it will require true desire (plus effort, plus investment) from the RFU to bring it about. That is a discussion which probably warrants its own thread though.

 

[crossref]

well - it does require some work, just as recruiting coaches, first aiders, team managers and fund raisers requires work.
One key is start of early, before it's frightening - eg at U7 U8s -- parents are generally at the club for two hours, as kids are too young to leave, and some are bored with nothing to do.
And reffing a bunch of U7s isn't frightening, if you have one so coaches try and get some dads volunteer. Some pick up the bug ...

 

[Staffs_Ref]

well - it does require some work, just as recruiting coaches, first aiders, team managers and fund raisers requires work.
One key is start of early, before it's frightening - eg at U7 U8s -- parents are generally at the club for two hours, as kids are too young to leave, and some are bored with nothing to do.
And reffing a bunch of U7s isn't frightening, if you have one so coaches try and get some dads volunteer. Some pick up the bug ...

I think you ought to get straight on the phone to Twickenham and let them know you have the answer to all of their future referee recruitment problems! :clap: :smile:

 

[crossref]

I think you ought to get straight on the phone to Twickenham and let them know you have the answer to all of their future referee recruitment problems! :clap: :smile:

I don't think our club is special, far from it, it seems to me pretty typical - but I don't think the situation is as bleak as you have found it.

does your club age groups have trouble filling ALL the volunteers roles needed (as above, coaches, first aid, manager, social/fund-raiser, fixture organiser) or is it just the referee role that's a problem? Is it all age groups that have problem, or just some.

 

[Staffs_Ref]

I don't think our club is special, far from it, it seems to me pretty typical - but I don't think the situation is as bleak as you have found it.

does your club age groups have trouble filling ALL the volunteers roles needed (as above, coaches, first aid, manager, social/fund-raiser, fixture organiser) or is it just the referee role that's a problem? Is it all age groups that have problem, or just some.

I'm not attached to the club any longer, but the biggest problem was (and still is) with getting referees. Getting coaches can require some persuasion, but ultimately more people are prepared to get involved in that. Possibly because it is not quite such a thankless task and possibly because they have the shelter and security blanket of a lead coach and are not solely responsible and on public display in the same way.

The situation at my club is far from unusual in my experience. The club has strong membership and is well respected ... but it is woefully short of decent referees.

 

[Pegleg]

My own experience would be more along the lines of:

All the age groups have someone who can referee in theory. This is because they have been press ganged into doing a basic refereeing course to satisfy the club's stated public objective of having a "qualified" referee at all levels.

These "referees" are then reticent at best about actually being the man in the middle and will generally find any excuse going not to actually have to do it.

This attitude isn't totally surprising. A basic RFU refereeing course doesn't in itself really equip you to be a competent referee. Nor does it prepare you for the fact that instead of being one of the numerous referees on the sidelines, you are now the single referee, out there on your own and subject to the opinions of those on the sidelines, who know better than you and wonder why such an incompetent fool has been let loose with a whistle.

If recruiting (and retaining) referees were that easy, then we wouldn't have a situation where societies the length and breadth of the country are short of numbers. There will be a solution to this problem, but it will require true desire (plus effort, plus investment) from the RFU to bring it about. That is a discussion which probably warrants its own thread though.

Spot on. All I ever hear from touring sides from England and from all over the UK is the problems with recruiting volunteers. In the other sectors I'm involved in it's the same story. Crossref's area is very lucky to be overrun with
willing helpers.