[Law] Knock on or not...?

[Lancsbarts]

Morning everyone, here's one that I find intriguing.

England v Australia at Twickenham last week. Pin point kick through from JJ, Marlon Yarde just gets his hands to the ball to force a touchdown and therefore try.
On review the TMO states left hand "always in contact with ball - try" even though right hand got involved at the last second.
Question then, if the left hand had NOT kept contact throughout and pushed the ball onto the right hand (ball still in the air), and right hand THEN grounded the ball - try or no try?

Be interested to here views as from the TMO's comment, it sounded as though if the left hand had released contact, he would not have given a try though this is conjecture as obvouisly this wasn't the case, just from his explanation it seems as though the left hand was the main factor in awarding the try.

Cheers,

Andy.

 

[OB..]

I think the decision was that because his left hand maintained contact with the ball, there was no knock-on, but the left hand did not apply downward pressure - the right hand did.

This is all very much in the grey areas of the law, but makes sense to me.

If the left hand had lost contact (and the ball had gone forward) before the right hand made contact, it would indeed have been a knock-on.

 

[crossref]

If the left hand had lost contact (and the ball had gone forward) before the right hand made contact, it would indeed have been a knock-on.

wouldn't it have just been a juggle?

 

[OB..]

wouldn't it have just been a juggle?

A juggle is only legitimate if you eventually catch the ball before it touches the ground.

 

[Dickie E]

A juggle is only legitimate if you eventually catch the ball before it touches the ground.

or knock it backwards.

 

[Decorily]

or knock it backwards.

Actually we have been told here in IRFU land to treat a 'juggle' followed by a slap/knock back as a knock on!!

 

[Dickie E]

Actually we have been told here in IRFU land to treat a 'juggle' followed by a slap/knock back as a knock on!!

even by a lineout jumper?

For every youtube clip you can find where an elite referee calls a knock-on after a knock back I can find 10 where he doesn't

 

[Decorily]

even by a lineout jumper?

For every youtube clip you can find where an elite referee calls a knock-on after a knock back I can find 10 where he doesn't

I'm sure you can.

I'm not arguing the case... just stating a fact!

 

[OB..]

even by a lineout jumper?

For every youtube clip you can find where an elite referee calls a knock-on after a knock back I can find 10 where he doesn't

If the slap back is a desperate attempt to prevent the ball hitting the ground in front of you, I can understand it. If you are juggling the ball and inadvertently knock it back over your shoulder, I can't.

 

[Pinky]

If the slap back is a desperate attempt to prevent the ball hitting the ground in front of you, I can understand it. If you are juggling the ball and inadvertently knock it back over your shoulder, I can't.

I think for me it would also depend whether overall the ball went forward or not

 

[Dickie E]

I think for me it would also depend whether overall the ball went forward or not

Can you be a bit more explicit?

Player running at speed receives pass on halfway line. He doesn't catch it cleanly and juggles the ball up to the 10 metre line. As he reaches the 10 metre line he lunges and knocks the ball backwards so that it is caught by a team mate (or hits the ground) 1/2 way between half way and the 10m line. Knock on?

 

[Pinky]

Can you be a bit more explicit?

Player running at speed receives pass on halfway line. He doesn't catch it cleanly and juggles the ball up to the 10 metre line. As he reaches the 10 metre line he lunges and knocks the ball backwards so that it is caught by a team mate (or hits the ground) 1/2 way between half way and the 10m line. Knock on?

For me that's probably a knock-on, but a player who say on the 10m line gets a pass and juggles as he moves forward, and ends up knocking it back behind the 10m line is play on and it has not been lost forward. Just getting some backward momentum on the ball as you drop it is not good enough for me - a bit like getting a toe-poke to the ball as you drop it is not a kick.