Knock on or penalty?

[Pegleg]

The key to this seems to be the fact that the player that knocked on went to ground to gather the ball. If he had remained on his feet and gathered the ball then no advantage could be applied could it?
In both scenarios the player knocking on gathered the ball and prevented the opposition getting the ball. It seems a little strange to me that one would result in a scrum and the other in a penalty (or even YC?)
Just a question - why would you play advantage when he gathers the ball by going to ground and not when he gathers the ball when standing up? In both scenarios he has prevented quick access to the ball by the opposition.

&

Matty said -
Heres one for you all, if the player who had knocked on (BLACK) had regathered whilst stood up as per Balones scenario and the arriving opposition player (BLUE) ripped the ball out of his arms because he soft held it expecting the knock on to be called, who would play on??

You beat me to my next question.
I was going to ask it in conjunction with allowing play to continue if the ball had been taken off the player on the floor as well.
What is the difference?

The point is that in the Scenarios are different!

We have three very different scenarios (and therefore three different outcomes):

1 Knock on followed by PK offence

2 Knock on followed by legal play on that preventa an advantage until whistle is blown.

3 Knock on followed by the player not playing on when the ball is still live. Literally handing the advantage over.


Lesson?

If any offence occurs play on legally until the referee blows the whistle.

 

[Pegleg]

Yeah..why not? Blue have possession of the ball after a minor infringement by black, they have an opportunity to gain and advantage so why would you blow the whistle to stop play to set a blue scrum?

Mere opportunity to gain an advantage is not advantage.

You wait (play on) to see if an advantage accrues. blowing if no such advantage is gained. as browner states the amount of an advantage to be considered "real" is not that great for a scrum advantage.

 

[The Fat]

I think we all agree that the elite game is skewed towards letting some things go (eg: players off feet at rucks etc) in the interests of the speeding up the game/less stoppages/more entertainment way of making the game more appealing to the masses.
So can someone please show me a video of where an elite level referee has waited to see if an advantage is gained after a player has lost the ball forward and then regained possession immediately?

Have seen plenty of instances where the player who loses the ball forward attempts to regain possession and play is allowed to continue under advantage to see if the non-infringing team can gain possession/kick the ball down field etc, but I cannot remember seeing any elite level ref NOT blowing for the knock-on when the infringing player or his team mate has regained possession.

Just saying.:wink:

 

[FlipFlop]

About the only example I can think of is:

Knock on by Red, Red player recovers by diving on the ball, but BLUE immediately have 1 or 2 players over the ball, and the ref PKs for holding on.

You do see that at the elite level occasionally. But if BLUE are not in and on the ball immediately, then they never "wait and see".

 

[crossref]

I think we all agree that the elite game is skewed towards letting some things go (eg: players off feet at rucks etc) in the interests of the speeding up the game/less stoppages/more entertainment way of making the game more appealing to the masses.
So can someone please show me a video of where an elite level referee has waited to see if an advantage is gained after a player has lost the ball forward and then regained possession immediately?

Have seen plenty of instances where the player who loses the ball forward attempts to regain possession and play is allowed to continue under advantage to see if the non-infringing team can gain possession/kick the ball down field etc, but I cannot remember seeing any elite level ref NOT blowing for the knock-on when the infringing player or his team mate has regained possession.

Just saying.:wink:

I agree with this... Yes on a message board people can invent one-in-a-thousand events where blue knock on, regain possession and it would be right for the ref to hang on a little bit and see if red can turn it over. I can invent examples myself

but, seriosuly, out on the real world, 999 knock-ons out of 1000, if blue knock on, and then regather possession -- peep blue knock on, no advantage gained, scrum red.

 

[Browner]

I think we all agree that the elite game is skewed towards letting some things go (eg: players off feet at rucks etc) in the interests of the speeding up the game/less stoppages/more entertainment way of making the game more appealing to the masses.
So can someone please show me a video of where an elite level referee has waited to see if an advantage is gained after a player has lost the ball forward and then regained possession immediately?

Have seen plenty of instances where the player who loses the ball forward attempts to regain possession and play is allowed to continue under advantage to see if the non-infringing team can gain possession/kick the ball down field etc, but I cannot remember seeing any elite level ref NOT blowing for the knock-on when the infringing player or his team mate has regained possession.

Just saying.:wink:

Maybe the elite guys just don't cough up possession cheaply when they KnOn & regather quickly, amateurs are more likely to

Just saying 2 :wink:

 

[Browner]

I agree with this... Yes on a message board people can invent one-in-a-thousand events where blue knock on, regain possession and it would be right for the ref to hang on a little bit and see if red can turn it over. I can invent examples myself

but, seriosuly, out on the real world, 999 knock-ons out of 1000, if blue knock on, and then regather possession -- peep blue knock on, no advantage gained, scrum red.

Crossref,The Fat (& others?)
As if by specific order, the following Clip arrives to highlight the example i posted#9 , if you didnt know already NO is a twitter follower of Browner !

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5IP9co1fCKY

NO says "there is advantage to be played-let it ( the ball) go - Pk for holding on"

Well done NO, "most advantageous" in action, thanks.