Ladies world cup 2014

[irishref]

Is anyone watching the games? All broadcast live on the irb website and great quality streams.

I've seen both of Ireland's games and also the France v Wales and a bit of England v Samoa.

I'm exceedingly impressed by how the ladies are playing the game. Great entertainment. Well done all concerned. :clap:

and... the girls in green have just done, at the first time of asking, what the boys in green haven't achieved in more than a century, beaten New Zealand.

 

[ChrisR]

Well done, indeed. The Irish women now lead the pool as they beat the USA last week.

The US beat Kazakhstan and earned a bonus point but they'll need to beat NZ to advance.

 

[FightOrFlight]

The rugby has been good. However perhaps relevant to our presence here is the fact that to my mind in the Ireland games V the USA and today against NZ the officiating left a little bit to be desired. Communication, signalling, law knowledge(for a flag ship competition) and overall ability to spot infringements/ trends etc and sanction them were wanting. Some of the explanations for decisions were then bizarre and confused. I got the impression today that the referee had lost "buy in" from both teams after 30 or so mins.

In the first 15-20 mins today Ireland were on top and some of the NZ play was frankly comically cynical. However there were very few PKs and no YCs. A men's game with the same relative trend and actions would have seen numerous PKs and one or more YCs. Ireland had a 5m scrum that resulted in a pretty blatant infringement that should have lead to a Penalty Try and YC for 6 Black yet the referee and touch judge failed to act.
There was a NZ truck and trailer just before the HT whistle that was blatant but not penalised. There were also numerous shocking calls with regards "the gate" being referred to before a ruck was even formed and some selective sanction of offsides.
I employ examples of NZ getting away with it above but there were some bad calls on them too.

I take issue with the idea a game played by women must be refereed by women. If there are females refs out there good enough then that is great, however of you find yourself with a panel of all female referees but some are not of a standard required to referee international rugby then you must seek to find male referees who are. It undermines the growth of the game to have poor officiating and stunts the games growth and legitimacy.

 

[Taff]

See HERE.

 

[ChrisR]

Not able to see any of the matches. And I'm part of a coaches course on Sat when the US play NZ. That should be a great match.

Agree totally with F-or-F. I've known a few quality women refs and one that gets some internationals. Should this competition accept lesser quality to promote women referees? I don't think so and the players would agree with me.

- - - Updated - - -

Not able to see any of the matches. And I'm part of a coaches course on Sat when the US play NZ. That should be a great match.

Agree totally with F-or-F. I've known a few quality women refs and one that gets some internationals. Should this competition accept lesser quality to promote women referees? I don't think so and the players would agree with me.

 

[menace]

I take issue with the idea a game played by women must be refereed by women. If there are females refs out there good enough then that is great, however of you find yourself with a panel of all female referees but some are not of a standard required to referee international rugby then you must seek to find male referees who are. It undermines the growth of the game to have poor officiating and stunts the games growth and legitimacy.

I'd say that, like always, heavy politics paid its part in selection. I'd say there is better female referees that should be there but are not.

 

[TheBFG]

the Eng officials there are a Nat Panel ref a SW group ref (who is also on the 7's circuit) and also a Nat Panel AR, but agree some are there cus they have the right bits and aren't up to the matches as the ladies game has come on leaps and bounds!

 

[OB..]

There were also numerous shocking calls with regards "the gate" being referred to before a ruck was even formed

This stopped me in my tracks. The concept of the "gate" applies to the tackle, not the ruck. The former has no offside line, so needs a gate to prevent side entry.

BTW should it be "Ladies'" or "Women's"? The official title is "Women's Rugby World Cup", but my club,like many others, refers to its "Ladies'" team. Bristol Ladies Rugby is a club in its own right.

 

[MrQeu]

I cannot (nor should I) comment on the refs themselves, but as I have heard (directly from one of them) is that IRB is looking for the best females refs from each country. The problem, then, resides in the very same country and the way their female refs go up the ranks and how they learn and get a hold of the game. Some countries let (and encourage!) female refs into the male competition, but I'm not sure about others

As for the term, Lady has a different usage in British English than elsewhere. There you use lady as a formal way to address women, but I'd say that elsewhere it has a component of class. Same like in French with femme and dame. I'd rather use the way it's in French or Spanish as the word is and adjective to rugby not a possessive: (Coupe du Monde de) rugby féminin, (Copa del Mundo de) Rugby femenino. Wouldn't that make the name "Female Rugby World Cup"? I think "Women's Rugby (World Cup)" is the nearest you can get while maintaining a natural use of the language.

 

[talbazar]

BTW should it be "Ladies'" or "Women's"? The official title is "Women's Rugby World Cup", but my club,like many others, refers to its "Ladies'" team. Bristol Ladies Rugby is a club in its own right.

Women players prefer the name "Women's rugby". It matches "Men's rugby"...
After all, we do not play or ref "Gentlemen's rugby", do we?

 

[OB..]

Women players prefer the name "Women's rugby". It matches "Men's rugby"...

And the two examples I gave? There are many more, quite apart from the title of this thread.

 

[Dixie]

After all, we do not play or ref "Gentlemen's rugby", do we?

[sniff] Perhaps not in your part of the world! [/sniff]

 

[Browner]

......shocking calls with regards "the gate" being referred to before a ruck was even formed ......

Why were they shocking?

 

[irishref]

I always refer to them as Ladies when I ref Women's/Female rugby games. Didn't meant to start a semantic fight with what may have been the incorrect term!!

 

[Browner]

The rugby has been good. However perhaps relevant to our presence here is the fact that to my mind in the Ireland games V the USA and today against NZ the officiating left a little bit to be desired. Communication, signalling, law knowledge(for a flag ship competition) and overall ability to spot infringements/ trends etc and sanction them were wanting. ,.........

.......... I take issue with the idea a game played by women must be refereed by women. If there are females refs out there good enough then that is great, however of you find yourself with a panel of all female referees but some are not of a standard required to referee international rugby then you must seek to find male referees who are. It undermines the growth of the game to have poor officiating and stunts the games growth and legitimacy.

Your point is understood, but there will always be an element of "promoting the sport to women" after all the female £€$ is a prized desire. If its generally accepted that elite men's rugby is way more challenging then the best female refs should find their way within that structure to whatever level their capability deserves, but on balance I don't think that officials at this level should all be men simply because they are ' better' than the selected group of women refs.

In the evolution & growth of the women's game comparisons between now and even a few years ago can easily see some 'growing pains' emerge and refereeing plays catch up here also. The standard of play Is vastly improved.

In the Soccer world cup minor nations still have representation in the early rounds even if their officiating is of a slightly lower standard , all in all I don't have a problem with what's occurring, and am slightly jealous of the woven/plaited/braided inbuilt head guards !

I think Ireland may have lit a backlash fuse.


Ps... As an aside I was wondering how international women would fare against say U16's / U18s in their country ie... where the comparable level is, Somewhere between u16 / u18 is my guess ...any thoughts?

Pps, I hope IRB will stream RWC2015 live.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

[sniff] Perhaps not in your part of the world! [/sniff]

Gentlemen?

Aylesbury Athletic?

Perhaps they're all Raffles and Bunny types?

6 for 52 before tea then off to give the Marchioness of Tavistock a pearl necklace - or something like that!!??

:biggrin:

 

[FightOrFlight]

This stopped me in my tracks. The concept of the "gate" applies to the tackle, not the ruck. The former has no offside line, so needs a gate to prevent side entry.

.

Why were they shocking?

I perhaps should have been more specific in the scenario. To boil it down in a simple example : NZ player breaks the line and into open field. Irish 15 tackles her, releases and gets back to feet and poaches the ball and away she goes before anyone else is on the scene. Shrill blast and a PK to NZ as the Irish player did not release and "come through the gate". This happened more than once to both teams in violation of 15.4(c)[LAWS]15.4(c)
The tackler must get up before playing the ball and then may play the ball from any direction.[/LAWS]

Your point is understood, but there will always be an element of "promoting the sport to women" after all the female £€$ is a prized desire. If its generally accepted that elite men's rugby is way more challenging then the best female refs should find their way within that structure to whatever level their capability deserves, but on balance I don't think that officials at this level should all be men simply because they are ' better' than the selected group of women refs.

In the evolution & growth of the women's game comparisons between now and even a few years ago can easily see some 'growing pains' emerge and refereeing plays catch up here also. The standard of play Is vastly improved.

I take your point however I just think that you get to a certain level where having officials who are so far behind the standard starts to drag the standard back. I was in a club bar watching the USA game and while Ireland looked a little stiff and ring rusty for a lot of the game the skills and intent were clearly there. This however was lost some what on people around me as bizarre decisions were followed by equally odd explanations from the ref. This lead to the attitude of "ah sure it's women's rugby what do you expect?". As much as I'm sure the IRB wants women involved in rugby if it wants Women's Rugby to thrive it will need many of the male supporters and structures to support it in some way(that's not the usual patronising carry on). The first hurdle to my mind in this is to legitimise the sport. The way I see it in Ireland certainly 90% of the work there is done and yesterday's result will do a lot in getting the rest of the way. I just think that having referees who are not up to it making silly decisions and making statements that are wrong in law on live TV totally undermines the Women's game as a whole.
If you have female refs who are good enough then fantastic but if you have some who are not then you must seek refs good enough from elsewhere.

I was told a while ago that the IRB did not allow women to referee elite men's rugby due to the collision risk on the pitch. I suppose if a man gets caught with a knock he may take it better than a woman....then again I know a few women who would knock the lads off their feet. Is that a rule or is it a myth?

 

[buff]

FWIW, our national women's hockey team often prepare for major competitions by playing against elite 16-17 year old boys. Along with the Americans, they are streets ahead of anyone else.

 

[talbazar]

And the two examples I gave? There are many more, quite apart from the title of this thread.

OB.., I guess there are exceptions. But in my former club, we (men) used to refer to the women team as the "ladies team". And so it was named. But we (men) named it that way. When I coached the women for a season, it became clear to me that even if some didn't really care, the ones who had an opinion on the topic where from "slightly inclined towards women rugby" to "calling us differently is sexist" kind of statement...

[sniff] Perhaps not in your part of the world! [/sniff]

Actually, on the pitch, definitely more gentlemanly here than where I come from :biggrin:... But I was referring to semantics

 

[MrQeu]

I was told a while ago that the IRB did not allow women to referee elite men's rugby due to the collision risk on the pitch. I suppose if a man gets caught with a knock he may take it better than a woman....then again I know a few women who would knock the lads off their feet. Is that a rule or is it a myth?

Well, as someone pointed, the ENG refs in the WRWC do ref men in high levels. Maybe not elite.

Anyway, I found this list, which is from April and I know for a fact that from those listed as ARs, there have been ref(s) in the middle of the pitch:

The full list of referees is: Jess Beard (New Zealand), Leah Berard (USA), Claire Hodnett (England), Nicky Inwood (New Zealand), Marlize Jordaan (South Africa), Helen O'Reilly (Ireland), Amy Perrett (Australia), Sherry Trumbull (Canada).

The full list of assistant referees is: Beatrice Benvenuti (Italy), Sara Cox (England), Clare Daniels (England), Marie Lematte (France), Alhambra Nievas (Spain), Alex Pratt (Scotland).

From those, I've found some of them who have ref men's rugby in national high levels (just a quick glance over google, so it's possible I've left some out and some others have gone up the ranks even further). It may be needed to discuss what's elite and what's-not also.


Leah Berard (USA)--> NCAA Div I
Claire Hodnett (England) --> National Panel
Nicky Inwood (New Zealand) --> Not sure, I've read she "referees the top level of senior men's rugby in Christchurch " but dunno how high that is. But men's rugby nonetheless
Helen O'Reilly (Ireland) --> J1 rugby in 2012. (same as Ms Inwood)
Amy Perrett (Australia) --> Premiership rugby (same as above)
Sherry Trumbull (Canada) --> British Columbia Premier (Men's rugby but not elite I'd say)

Sara Cox (England)--> National 3 South West (whatever that be with your english strange system )
Clare Daniels (England) --> National League 2
Marie Lematte (France) ---> Fédérale I (3rd tier of French rugby)
Alhambra Nievas (Spain) --> División de Honor (Top tier of rugby in Spain)
Alex Pratt (Scotland) --> Couldn't find exact level.