Law 15: Tackle & Offside lines

[gillburt]

I'm probably getting overly caught up on individual words:

Law 15.6 (b) After a tackle any players on their feet may attempt to gain possession by taking the ball from the ball carriers possession

Law 15.6 (c) At a tackle or near to a tackle, other players who play the ball must do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or the tackler closest to those player's goal line

So, if 16.5(c) applies to all players who were not involved in the tackle phase itself, does this mean all players who were involved in the tackle phase cannot be offside as long as they are on their feet and contesting for the ball?

I know this is a simple one, but I've managed to tie my brain up in knots now...

 

[Donal1988]

Way I see it the tackler must do this before the ruck forms. But if it happens in a one on one situation he could get up and pick up the ball from the side once tackled guy has released it.

Think youre reading the individual words too much Chopperstyle

 

[Phil E]

As I understand it, the tackler (having first got to his feet) can play the ball from any direction, he hasn't got to run round and come in the gate. Everyone else has to come through the gate.

 

[Davet]

If you are the tackler, i.e. you tackled the palyer AND went to ground with him, then once you have released him and regained your feet you may contest for the ball, and you do not need to come through the gate.

If you did NOT go to ground then, again, you must release the tackled player, get back to your feet, but in this case you must also get back to your side of the ball before you can contest for it.

 

[Phil E]

If you did NOT go to ground then, again, you must release the tackled player, get back to your feet,

[pedant mode] if you didn't go to ground, why do you need to get back to your feet? [/pedant mode]

 

[gillburt]

Cool - as I was thinking (hoping) and how I've been reffing.

Guess I'm just reaching that stage of development where my knowledge of the LoTG is better than I yet realise and I have to learn trust myself more.

All good fun..

 

[Dixie]

I'm probably getting overly caught up on individual words:

No - these ones are important

Law 15.6 (b) After a tackle any players on their feet may attempt to gain possession by taking the ball from the ball carriers possession

Law 15.6 (c) At a tackle or near to a tackle, other players who play the ball must do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or the tackler closest to those player's goal line

So, if 15.6(c) applies to all players who were not involved in the tackle phase itself, does this mean all players who were involved in the tackle phase cannot be offside as long as they are on their feet and contesting for the ball?

Words are important - the first point to note is that there is no offside for anyone at a tackle. Offside lines only appear if the tackle turns into a ruck.

The term other players identifies those who are neither the tackler nor the tackled player. Those two players must get to their feet, and having done so they alone may approach the ball from any direction. Everyone else must come through the gate.

 

[Davet]

[pedant mode] if you didn't go to ground, why do you need to get back to your feet? [/pedant mode]

Fair cop, guvnor.

 

[lawsons]

further if the tackled player goes to ground but the tackler doesn't, it's not a tackle and open to everyone. Both have to go to ground to bring the 'gate' into play.

 

[Dixie]

further if the tackled player goes to ground but the tackler doesn't, it's not a tackle and open to everyone. Both have to go to ground to bring the 'gate' into play.

Whoa there, Sparky! I don't think that interpreation accords with the definition in Law 15:

A tackle occurs when the ball carrier is held by one or more opponents and is brought to ground.

I think you are becoming confused with the situation of the tackler; when the defender stays on his feet while bringing the ball carrier to ground, a tackle has taken place but there is no "tackler" as defined. Thus, the defender has not got the additional rights of the tackler. In practice, this will rarely make any difference, as I see it. He's already in the tackle zone and on his feet, so doesn't have to worry about how he enters it.

 

[OB..]

He's already in the tackle zone and on his feet, so doesn't have to worry about how he enters it.

He is indeed in the tackle zone, but he is not a tackler, so he has to retreat and come through the gate.

If you bring a player to the ground in a tackle, make sure your own knee at least hits the ground at more or less the same time. Then you are a tackler and can spring to your feet and grab the ball.
http://www.sareferees.co.za/laws/laws_explained/clips/1525342.htm

 

[Simonsky]

Whoa there, Sparky! I don't think that interpreation accords with the definition in Law 15: I think you are becoming confused with the situation of the tackler; when the defender stays on his feet while bringing the ball carrier to ground, a tackle has taken place but there is no "tackler" as defined. Thus, the defender has not got the additional rights of the tackler. In practice, this will rarely make any difference, as I see it. He's already in the tackle zone and on his feet, so doesn't have to worry about how he enters it.

Dixie -are you thensaying that if the defender(s) tackle but stay upright they must use the gate? i.e. if they are on 'wrong' side they must go round as opposed to grounded tackler who gets up quickly and can play ball from where he happens to be?

Just answered by arrival of OB's comments!

 

[tim White]

Make sure your knee hits the ground as part of the tackle. No thinking time allowed, late knee grounding on a voluntary basis may incurr wrath:nono:

 

[SimonSmith]

This was also covered by an IRB directive.

You can have a tackle without a tackler. If you don't go to ground, you're not a tackler, you're "another player" - and yes, that means the gate!

 

[Dixie]

This was also covered by an IRB directive.

You can have a tackle without a tackler. If you don't go to ground, you're not a tackler, you're "another player" - and yes, that means the gate!

Ruling 13 of 2003, which I was clearly in need of having pointed out to me -thanks Guys.

By definition, any opponents of the tackled player who go to ground are
known as tacklers. Therefore a player on his feet is not a tackler as defined by
Law.
A player on his feet in the situation described is not a tackler as defined by
Law. That player is not part of the tackle, as he has not gone to ground. He
can only therefore be described as an ‘Other Player’ in Law 15.7 Other
Players. Specifically Law 15.7(c) would apply, where that player can only play
the ball if he approaches from behind the ball and from directly behind the
tackled player or the tackler closest to those players’ goal-line.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Is the defender, who forces a tackle and who becomes an "other player", liable to any penalty if he doesn't attempt to play the ball and just stands there like a bulkhead?


OB- in your video example from SA, isn't a ruck is formed before the tackler plays the ball, it happens quickly

 

[OB..]

Is the defender, who forces a tackle and who becomes an "other player", liable to any penalty if he doesn't attempt to play the ball and just stands there like a bulkhead?

He is not entitled to stay in the tackle zone.

OB- in your video example from SA, isn't a ruck is formed before the tackler plays the ball, it happens quickly

Probably not, if only because it all happens pretty much at the same time. Moreover a ruck requires the two players to be "around the ball", and I don't think the Crusader is.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

He is not entitled to stay in the tackle zone.


What law applies here? 10.1d Blocking the ball?

I don't think 15.6c makes him leave the tackle zone unless he wants to play it. Not sure what else he would do in there other than get in the way.

 

[Deeps]

Of course you can have more than one tackler too.

 

[OB..]

Ruling 3 of 2004:
The players of Team A hold on to the ball carrier of Team B. The players from Team A drive the ball carrier towards the Team B's goal line (i.e. Team A players are going forward). After the ball carrier goes to the ground, one of the players of Team A holding on to the ball carrier also goes to the ground whilst the other player of Team A is still on his feet holding on to the ball and the opposition's arm.
By definition, a tackle occurs with the ball carrier being the tackled player and the player of Team A on the ground being the tackler.
In this situation,
(1) Should the Team A's player still on his feet retire to the position behind the ball to approach from directly behind the tackled player or the tackler closest to his goal-line ?
[...]
The answers to the abovementioned questions are:
1. Yes

As far as the IRB are concerned, this ruling was superseded by a change to Law 15.6 (c), though you are reading the law very literally to say that he is only illegal if he tries to play the ball. You can however apply the Ruling to insist that the player leaves the tackle zone to enter through the gate. You can use various provisions under Law 10 if you prefer.