Legal or not?

[Mickman]

Hello All,

Does anyone know whether it is legal for juniors to 'lay the egg' use 'squeeze ball' in games?

I am not a fan of it at any level but especially for juniors because of how the player must put their head and neck on ground towards the defence and in my opinion, the increased chance of serious injury accidents and mis-haps that could occur.

Wanting clarification as both referee and coach (I do not want to include it in our play but our other coach does ).

Cheers

 

[jeff]

It IS Illegal. and should not be coached at all in youth games.

 

[The Fat]

It IS Illegal. and should not be coached at all in youth games.

Not in Aus.
Whilst it is not illegal in youth games in Australia, the recommendation from the ARU is that it should not be coached at youth level on the grounds of player safety and the reds are told to be very hard on the practice from an obstruction point of view (ie: ball not fully clear of ball carrier's body and available to opposition players wanting to play the ball).

Mickman,
Check your GMGs

 

[jeff]

the fat)

UNDER 13 TO UNDER 19 INCLUSIVE:

Squeeze Ball - Law 14 and 15

No player involved in a match at any age level from under 18 downwards shall use in training or in a match the technique known or referred to as Squeeze ball.

Note: ''Squeeze ball'' is a technique where the ball carrier goes to ground, head forward (touching or close to the ground), irrespective of immediate contact with opponents) usually keeping parallel to the touchline, holding and protecting the ball close to the chest and, when on the ground, pushes the ball back between the legs.

Penalty: Penalty Kick

 

[jeff]

Law 15.6 (d) states
“A tackled player may release the ball by pushing it along the ground in any direction except forward, providing this is done immediately.”

In recent times players having been tackled or who go to ground have done so ensuring that the ball is underneath them, they then push the ball along the ground and through their legs (a practice known as squeeze ball).

On most occasions when players attempt to push the ball along the ground under their bodies they are not making the ball available immediately and they are in contravention of Law 14.1 and Law 15. 6(d). Players who attempt the action are liable to penalty unless the ball is immediately available.

Unions are requested to adopt Domestic Variations which makes the action, referred to as the squeeze ball, illegal for all age levels from under 18 downwards.

 

[The Fat]

Jeff,
I will have to dig out the relative info from the ARU when I get home. Personally I support banning it at youth level and it is a mystery to me why they don't here when they are saying not to coach it and for refs to ping it as a form of obstruction.

 

[TigerCraig]

The line in the ARU GMG's is:

"Tackled Player
• The tackled player must not position their body (eg. ‘squeeze ball’) to delay the release of the ball when isolated or under pressure. The issue here is the immediate availability of the ball."

As Ron Mancell has reiterated a number of times - including an email to all NSW refs last season - the interpretation we are to use is that there is nothing inherently illegal about pushing the ball under the body, so long as it is done immediately

 

[Robert Burns]

Yep, though they all agree it should be illegal, unfortunately in Australia, it isn't!

 

[stuart3826]

Law 15.6 (d) states
“A tackled player may release the ball by pushing it along the ground in any direction except forward, providing this is done immediately.”

In recent times players having been tackled or who go to ground have done so ensuring that the ball is underneath them, they then push the ball along the ground and through their legs (a practice known as squeeze ball).

On most occasions when players attempt to push the ball along the ground under their bodies they are not making the ball available immediately and they are in contravention of Law 14.1 and Law 15. 6(d). Players who attempt the action are liable to penalty unless the ball is immediately available.

Unions are requested to adopt Domestic Variations which makes the action, referred to as the squeeze ball, illegal for all age levels from under 18 downwards.

Which law book are you looking at? in the 2011 law book on the IRB website now, 15.6 (d) reads

(d) At a tackle or near to a tackle, other players who play the ball must do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or the tackler closest to those players’ goal line.
Sanction: Penalty kick

 

[OB..]

Which law book are you looking at? in the 2011 law book on the IRB website now, 15.6 (d) reads

He is quoting an IRB Note from 2001.

 

[stuart3826]

He is quoting an IRB Note from 2001.

Then there's no hope for him:norc:

 

[jeff]

Stuart 3826)
This was sent to all unions
And 99% took it on board and listened. the main part for your interest is,

Unions are requested to adopt Domestic Variations which makes the action, referred to as the squeeze ball, illegal for all age levels from under 18 downwards.

 

[Robert Burns]

Requested, not ordered.

Australia hasn't done this.

 

[jeff]

Stuart 3826)
You say its legal at all age levels in australia.
You might need to check again .
As its not allowed from u7 to u12 in australia.
one law for u6 to u12 age group and not the other ??.

 

[jeff]

LAWS SUMMARY FOR VICTORIA AND SOUTH AUSTRALIA 2011

Common Pathway Laws for U6 to U12

Player
Numbers
Equal number of players on each team. If one team is short, teams MUST share players
to reach maximum number of equal players. Unlimited rolling substitutions.

Tackle Slinging tackles, fending to the
head and squeeze ball illegal

 

[stuart3826]

Stuart 3826)
You say its legal at all age levels in australia.
You might need to check again .
As its not allowed from u7 to u12 in australia.
one law for u6 to u12 age group and not the other ??.

I didn't say that. I didn't comment on its legality anywhere

 

[scrumpox2]

Well all know it's an obstructive technique, we all know why players do it, so why not ban it from all levels of the game? It would be one less U19 variation to worry about.

 

[The Fat]

Stuart 3826)
You say its legal at all age levels in australia.
You might need to check again .
As its not allowed from u7 to u12 in australia.
one law for u6 to u12 age group and not the other ??.

Jeff,
I should have been more specific in my earlier posts as well. I stated "youth" levels but should have said from U13s to U19s inclusive. It is illegal in all kids or "pathways" rugby (ie: U6s to U12s) in Australia.
As I said earlier, I too believe it should be banned in ALL junior age grade rugby here.

Mickman,
You mentioned that another coach at your club IS coaching the squeezeball technique to his team. What age level is he coaching?
You should perhaps contact Bruce Frame and ask that he confirm to the other coach why the ARU recommend that it not be coached in juniors here. The other thing is that his kids are likely to get pinged for not making the ball available if they do use squeezeball and therefore will gain no benefit from the practice.

 

[Davet]

Just ping 'em anyway - "Too slow!", 'cos they invariably will be.

 

[Rit Hinners]

Well all know it's an obstructive technique, we all know why players do it, so why not ban it from all levels of the game? It would be one less U19 variation to worry about.

I'll go with this school of thought.