Lyndon Bray under fire

[chief]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...giteau-should-go/story-e6frg7ox-1225859620955

Although I agree, I don't think Lyndon Bray should have attempted to interfere with the process. Bit of a conflict I think.

 

[Donal1988]

Being honest I think Bray definately made the right call. We all know full well that if he left Walsh in charge of the game, The Australian would have another article written criticising his doing nothing.

 

[chief]

The article is criticising the precedent set, and Lyndon's comments which were made about Giteau. I think Lyndon might face a hearing as well, because I think that both Matt and Lyndon are both out of line here.

 

[Mat 04]

I see nothing wrong with the SANZAR referees manager expressing his opinion.

 

[Rit Hinners]

You don't think Giteau was out of line?

 

[Ian_Cook]

This is just another round Kiwi bashing by the Australian Media. Nothing new really, we have been putting up with this kind of BS for many years.

Its exactly the same reaction as the sanctimonious cr@p that took place when POB (rightly IMO) criticised Stu Dickinson for his abysmal handling of the Italy v NZ test last year. Its the same kind of school-yard bullying tactics that has seen former Australia Prime Minister, John Howard made ICC Vice-President ahead of the vastly more qualified New Zealander, Sir John Anderson.

Giteau should have copped at least a two-week suspension and much heavier fine, something like $10,000. The message needs to be sent out loud and clear.... accusing a referee if cheating is totally unacceptable. The SANZAR judiciary has wimped out on an opportunity to send that message out.

Giteau has not even apologised for his remarks, and remains defiant. IMO, he believes he has done nothing wrong. Lyndon Bray was put in a no-win situation by Giteau's disgraceful conduct in, albeit in a thinly veiled manner, accusing Steve Walsh of being a cheat.

► Bray makes the change, and the arrogant Australian media calls for his head for bowing to pressure from the Brumbies

► Bray does nothing, and there had been another Giteau v Walsh altercation, and that very same arrogant Australian media calls for his head for doing nothing.

 

[Robert Burns]

The point in the Newspaper is Valid.

Giteau expressed that he wanted the referee replaced because they shouldn't turn up is he isn't.

Bray Expressed Giteau should be suspended for a week because of his comments.

While I echo Bray's sentiments completely, he has just done the same as what Giteau did. And is in turn, probably in breach of a code of conduct.

As Referee's were must not drop to the level of explaining our actions all the time. Maybe a reason why referee interviews is no good, because we can't really ever say what we want to without being critisised.

I feel for Bray here, he has been set up a bit by the paper too who are obvioulsy on the Brumbies side!

 

[menace]

This is just another round Kiwi bashing by the Australian Media. Nothing new really, we have been putting up with this kind of BS for many years.

Its exactly the same reaction as the sanctimonious cr@p that took place when POB (rightly IMO) criticised Stu Dickinson for his abysmal handling of the Italy v NZ test last year. Its the same kind of school-yard bullying tactics that has seen former Australia Prime Minister, John Howard made ICC Vice-President ahead of the vastly more qualified New Zealander, Sir John Anderson.

Giteau should have copped at least a two-week suspension and much heavier fine, something like $10,000. The message needs to be sent out loud and clear.... accusing a referee if cheating is totally unacceptable. The SANZAR judiciary has wimped out on an opportunity to send that message out.

Giteau has not even apologised for his remarks, and remains defiant. IMO, he believes he has done nothing wrong. Lyndon Bray was put in a no-win situation by Giteau's disgraceful conduct in, albeit in a thinly veiled manner, accusing Steve Walsh of being a cheat.

► Bray makes the change, and the arrogant Australian media calls for his head for bowing to pressure from the Brumbies

► Bray does nothing, and there had been another Giteau v Walsh altercation, and that very same arrogant Australian media calls for his head for doing nothing.

Don't look now Ian but I think you're a Kiwi doing a bit of Aussie bashing yourself.:nono: Don't think I've ever read you doing that before?:wink:

Isn't trans-tasman rivalry great! (PS can you please invite John Howard to live over there - even when we vote him out he keeps popping his BS into everything)

 

[Casey Bee]

The whole thing is an embarassment. Too many egotists behaving like prima donnas.

 

[Robert Burns]

What's the first woman got to do with it?
























Sorry I'm learning Italian and find it interesting to translate loads of stuff now and find out the humour of what it really means. e.g.

Madonna - But(t?) Woman
Julio Iglesias - Johnny English.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Don't look now Ian but I think you're a Kiwi doing a bit of Aussie bashing yourself.:nono: Don't think I've ever read you doing that before?:wink:

Isn't trans-tasman rivalry great! (PS can you please invite John Howard to live over there - even when we vote him out he keeps popping his BS into everything)

Aussie bashing...no!
Aussie media bashing.... absolutely!!!

But I think there is more to it than that.

I am 100% certain that if the SANZAR Head Referee was Andrew Cole, Dan Carter had publicly called the referee (down to control the next Crusaders match) a cheat in the same manner, and Cole had changed the ref because of the remarks, the Australian media would be baying for Carter's head and giving Andrew Cole the big "well done Andy" slap on the back!

The players, referees, coaches and managers of the Super 14 franchises, and that includes the Brumbies, all bought into the openness and frankness policy at the beginning of the season, It seems that one of them doesn't like it now that it affects them. Openness and frankness means that you can say you thought this decision was wrong or that decision was wrong, but it does not extend to calling a referee a cheat.

Lets not forget that Giteau publicly accused one of his referees of being a cheat, so it was Giteau who put it in the public arena, and therefore Bray had every right to publicly criticise Giteau for what he did. making no comment on this would have been taken as a sign of weakness.

The Australian media's focus ought to be on Matt Giteau, on why he got off so lightly, on why he has failed to apologise to Steve Walsh for his comments, and most importantly, on why he STILL thinks he did nothing wrong.

PS: John Howard is a shiver look for a spine to run down. You can keep him!

 

[Ian_Cook]

Madonna - But(t?) Woman
Julio Iglesias - Johnny English.

How about Giuseppe Verdi? ...... Joe Green

 

[Casey Bee]

Sorry I'm learning Italian and find it interesting to translate loads of stuff now and find out the humour of what it really means. e.g.

Madonna - But(t?) Woman
Julio Iglesias - Johnny English.

Va bene fantastico!

Johnny English was a terrible film starring Rowan Atkinson. It wasn't about a Spanish ex footballing crooner though. But it did co star Natalie Umbruglia, an Aussie who can say whatever she likes!
http://upimagens.com/imagens/304870Natalie_Imbruglia.jpg

 

[Ian_Cook]

...But it did co star Natalie Umbruglia, an Aussie who can say whatever she likes!
http://upimagens.com/imagens/304870Natalie_Imbruglia.jpg

... whenever she likes!!!!

 

[Robert Burns]

...and however she likes!!!!


:drool:

 

[chief]

Ian you have really crossed the line here. I think you really have.

The thing is, Lyndon Bray crossed the line. Paddy O'Brien wasn't consistent in the slightest. How come Australia didn't get an apology for the more abysmal handling of the Aus v Ireland match that same week?

As for John Howard, all of the media thought Anderson should have got the gig. No one disputed that. It was a matter of that the Australian Cricket board, wanted an Aussie. It had nothing to do with the media.

Don't be a hypocrite Ian, I think it is you here who really needs to pull his head in along with Lyndon Bray. What a disgrace.

 

[Robert Burns]

Ok, lets not turn the thread into another barrage of arguements.

Some people can be passionate about thing, some people can think things are more 'conincidental' than they should be', and some can think other people are talking rubbish.

However, lets not take it personal please.

Ian, We know the media is fickle, but please cut short deliberately infering it's against people from New Zealand as a whole.

Chief, also calling people a disgrace is not on please.

Please lets not turn this into Aus & NZ slanging match.

I appreciate your co-operation.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Sorry I'm learning Italian and find it interesting to translate loads of stuff now and find out the humour of what it really means. e.g.

Madonna - But(t?) Woman
Julio Iglesias - Johnny English.

Giacomo Casanova could removed 18th century drawers with a raise of an eyebrow - Could Jack Newhouse perform as well? I rather think not sir!:biggrin:

 

[upnunder]

Giacomo Casanova could removed 18th century drawers with a raise of an eyebrow - Could Jack Newhouse perform as well? I rather think not sir!:biggrin:

I think Giacomo is the Italian version of James.

On the same note, one of the actors in Heroes is called Milo Ventimiglia, or Miles 20,000

 

[Ian_Cook]

From Lyndon Bray

"We have to look at what's in the best interests of that game and what's in the best interests of Steve as a ref," Bray said on New Zealand radio yesterday. "We think it would be remiss to ignore what sort of environment is likely to happen if we left Steve refereeing the Brumbies and Reds.

"They've made it very untenable for Steve to be able to work in that environment and we're only being responsible to the game in saying this week should be all about the Reds and the Brumbies who both are fighting for semi-final spots, and the last thing you want is this week being all about the referee."

But while Bray was on solid ground when he stressed the refereeing switch should not be seen as a victory for intimidation, he then appeared guilty of intimidation when he stated it would be "nice" if Giteau, who last night appeared at a judiciary hearing over his comments, was suspended for at least this week's match.
"I just want him to be answerable for his comments and be accountable for that," Bray said. "I'm not emotive about what happens to him, just pragmatic about it, and the reality is he's quite out of line."

I cannot add much to that, except to say that I support what he has said, and his right to say it, 100%.

Let's not lose focus on what has happened here; a very Senior 79 test veteran has accused a very Senior referee of being a cheat. Media criticism of Lyndon Bray has obfuscated the real issue.


Giteau's $5000 fine is a joke. It represents less than 3 days pay! What I want to know is why the SANZAR judiciary did little more than slap him over the wrist with a wet bus ticket? No-one seems able care about the answer to this.