Maul to ruck

[OB..]

I was with you until this bit. Is this opinion based on your observation? I don't think I have ever seen a quality referee do this.

It was a note I made some years ago. What do you see a quality ref do?

 

[crossref]

Good debate guys.
I believe I got it right.
Red got the ball to the floor and the ball was clearly available to play.
Before the scrum half exercised his options the ruck collapsed accidentally.

The only thing I'd say with that approach -- I think the moment you decided it was a ruck, you should have loudly called 'ruck' so that black knew how to compete for the ball (they needed to go forward) otherwise the last thing you called was 'maul' (you said you called 'maul') and so then a scrum to red is then a rabbit out of a hat.

similarly from the touchline, or from the backs it must have seemed like a clear mistake for them, so need some shouts or signals to explain

 

[Dickie E]

What do you see a quality ref do?

once 'maul' is called, either it ends successfully or it's a turnover scrum. I've never seen a quality (ie elite) ref turn a maul into a ruck and give scrum to team going forward.

 

[Taff]

once 'maul' is called, either it ends successfully or it's a turnover scrum. I've never seen a quality (ie elite) ref turn a maul into a ruck and give scrum to team going forward.

I've heard this said before, but genuinely gents we see it in almost every game; usually several times. There may not be a scrum because the ball usually gets recycled from the ruck.

 

[crossref]

I've heard this said before, but genuinely gents we see it in almost every game; usually several times. There may not be a scrum because the ball usually gets recycled from the ruck.

If the ball is recycled then, of course, the question of whether it was a ruck, or still a maul is moot

The question becomes important only if the ball gets stuck

I dont think it's right to wait until the ball is stuck, and only then reveal to the players what you judge it was

 

[Stu10]

Since I have form this week in raising old threads from the dead, I thought I would add an observation directly at the question of whether a maul can become a ruck... the other thread, regarding b/c putting a knee down in a maul, includes reference to clarification 2-2011 that contains 3 references to a maul becoming a ruck.

... when the ball goes to ground at a collapsed maul and there are players from both sides on their feet bound over the ball so that Law 16 – Ruck becomes applicable.

(a) If a maul collapses and the ball does not touch the ground the player on his feet is not obliged to release the ball or ball carrier unless the ball touches the ground and a ruck is formed.

(c) At a collapsed maul there is no obligation in Law for players to roll away unless a ruck subsequently occurs.