Minimum Wage question

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Pegleg

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...Id just like to like to see a two way far system.

No problem with a fair system But L'ielandais was apperaering to suggerst return to the days of put up and shut up. The two are poles apart. Ifthe Law demand a minimum wage and employer failing to deilver it needs to be shamed. Simple as that.
 

L'irlandais

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Unsurprisingly you have not taken the time to read my posts properly. At no point did I suggest the 26 year old "put up and shut up. That notion came from both yourself and Roblev misinterpretation of my comments. I pointed out (similarilay to Shelflife) that the law today protects employees. We also have many young players at the club struggling to get full time contracts at work. The message to them and your 26 year old is to stand up for themselves. Part of doing so is being man enough to find out information from themselves. You mentioned internet dinosaurs, more chance of finding them on RRF than on Government information websites, on working law and citizen rights, such websites are updated regularly.

When you post in a public forum like this, please refrain from being rude to members who don't share your point of view. Thanks!
 

L'irlandais

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A totally irrelevant piece of nonsense. The law is the law and applies to the employers and employees.
I can only imagine you didn't bother following the links. Since they are both entirely relevant to the thread topic of minimum wage and workers rights.
 
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Pegleg

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I read your comments.
 

RobLev

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Roblev I am referring to Irish employment law, as a small businessman with 12 employees I speak from experience in these cases.

In the case of a sacking, best practice over here is to pay notice.

Trying to sack a malingerer who is there over 12mths is a long drawn out process, you must retrain,retrain ,warn,warn sack this can take up to 18mths.

Employment appeals tribunals over here take the view that employers are wrong unless proven otherwise.

In Ireland over the 26 weeks maternity leave they build up 2 weeks holidays. Having children is a lifestyle choice in most cases, why should I pay someone holiday pay when they are not working ? why should I pay for it ? if someone takes a day off to get a big tattoo should I pay for them to be off ?

As a self employed person my wife got no paid leave, no maternity pay at all and no paid days off for scans etc

Why should someones choice to have a child be subsidised by their employer ? Yes they are still on the books but they are not working!

We can employ maternity cover over here too, my point was they dont have to tell you they are not coming back until they are due to come back , thus leaving you in the lurch again, politely inquiring as to their intentions can be seen as harassment.Im not talking about heavy lifting or clearly unsafe practises, im talking about simply taking the piss and pulling the pregnancy card because it suits them.

In the sacking case you would guess wrong ! Truck driver was seen filling his truck and his wifes car at then filling station and charging it to the companies card. Admitted it when questioned and begged for forgiveness, offered to pay back, had been going on for a while when they checked the figures. Owner sacked him on the spot.

At the EAT drivers english suddenly was so poor that he needed a translator, said he didnt realise what was happening at the time, court held there was clear breach of procedure and nailed employer.

As I said earlier EAT starts with the position that the employer is wrong and then opens the case.

Roblev Im at this game for 25 years, most of my staff are with me for years so I must be treating them ok, the idea behind accommodating pregnant workers isnt a bad one, the problem arises when small businesses who are just surviving are hit with extra costs for something that is out of their control and is effectively a lifestyle choice of their employee. When you are finding it hard to pay the bills having to fork out €2k to someone whos sitting at home is a hard one to take.

Put it this way, if your co worker got pregnant, would it be fair if money was deducted from your wages to pay her holiday pay while shes off, she is your co worker after all.

The EAT over here has produced some horror stories over the years, they love their practices and procedures, yes there are plenty od shitty employers who screw over people and ive no problem with them been nailed. Id just like to like to see a two way far system.

Two comments:

1. If that's the approach in Irish ETs, it's wrong; but it's not the approach taken by English ETs - not least because they have an employee rep on the tribunal.

2. It looks like I was right - the ET didn't believe the owner.
 

Rushforth


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Having children is a lifestyle choice in most cases

Erm, what? You live in Ireland, and having children is a 'lifestyle choice'?

I'm fairly sure that having children is a necessity for the continuation of the human race. That's why people have them. But in Ireland there are still as of today massive issues with birth control and the like.

I'm not going to go any further than that since you are clearly ... positioned. But I've never heard of the facts of life being described as a lifestyle choice before.
 

Pegleg

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Of course having children is a choice (on a personal level if not on the wider humanity level). We need new blood to provide taxes etc for older people to retire on. One of the problem the UK is facing is an aging population. A problem caused by lower birth rates amongst other things. Even childless cpouple benefit from new children being born. Therefore it seems right for society to help with that burden. To view it otherwise seems incredibly short-sighted to me.
 

Shelflife


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Erm, what? You live in Ireland, and having children is a 'lifestyle choice'?

I'm fairly sure that having children is a necessity for the continuation of the human race. That's why people have them. But in Ireland there are still as of today massive issues with birth control and the like.

I'm not going to go any further than that since you are clearly ... positioned. But I've never heard of the facts of life being described as a lifestyle choice before.

I am clearly........positioned as you put it, im an employer. Im not sure what you are on about the fact that I live in Ireland, what has that got to do with anything ? Im not sure what you are on about regarding birth control here either, birth control is freely available here.

Of course having children is a choice (on a personal level if not on the wider humanity level). We need new blood to provide taxes etc for older people to retire on. One of the problem the UK is facing is an aging population. A problem caused by lower birth rates amongst other things. Even childless cpouple benefit from new children being born. Therefore it seems right for society to help with that burden. To view it otherwise seems incredibly short-sighted to me.

I agree totally that new blood is needed in order to for the human race to continue and I agree that society as a whole should help with the burden and not leave to certain individuals.
 

didds

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As a self employed person my wife got no paid leave, no maternity pay at all and no paid days off for scans etc

isn't that a lifestyle choice also?

didds
 

Pegleg

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Unsurprisingly you have not taken the time to read my posts properly. At no point did I suggest the 26 year old "put up and shut up. That notion came from both yourself and Roblev misinterpretation of my comments. I pointed out (similarilay to Shelflife) that the law today protects employees. We also have many young players at the club struggling to get full time contracts at work. The message to them and your 26 year old is to stand up for themselves. Part of doing so is being man enough to find out information from themselves. You mentioned internet dinosaurs, more chance of finding them on RRF than on Government information websites, on working law and citizen rights, such websites are updated regularly.

When you post in a public forum like this, please refrain from being rude to members who don't share your point of view. Thanks!


Your 26 year old only has rights, if he stand up for those rights. I started work long before the 1999 law came into force, one had to accept being exploited back then. With a couple of years expierence under his belt he can ask for more than the minimum wage.

The point is he should not have to. The employer should comply with the law. your point about the bad old day when you were a lad have sod all to do with the question.

Don't you think the lad WAS standing up for himself by making enquiries? Your dismissive (RUDE )comment implies a lack of care. Sorry but perhaps if you do not wish to be interpreted incorrectly you should be clearer in your comments.

Such websites are often difficult to interpret expecially to the young. so the lad uses commin sense and seeks guidence and you dimiss him. Let's hope people are kinder to you when you need help.
 
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