[Law] Munster v toulon

[Christy]

I didnt see try in todays match
Heard that conor murray scored a try , following 5 min tmo debate .
Can some body put it up , to see what it was all about .
Thanks

 

[Flish]

About 20 seconds in https://youtu.be/EzyNKz25Q8c and discussed more later on

I was watching in a noisy room so didn’t get the explanation, and was struggling to see how it was a try, the explanation seemed to be that it was a knock on, therefore Ruck was over, so Murray was onside therefore a try, but NO and TMO seemed to change positions on the knock on issue, which didn’t seem clear and obvious to me. Pretty sure ball wasn’t out so Rick over in the normal sense.

 

[Christy]

Thanks flish .
Yes looks ok to me .as ball looks to be knocked on by acting scrum half

Although not so sure about zebo knock on ( or rather not knock on at begining of clip )

 

[Cross]

here's the game

https://youtu.be/PNL-ryMBBQE

Nigel had a shocker imo.

Maybe someone can explain this one to me. Look at 13:10.
12 red tackles and it looks as if he does pretty much everything and anything he could do to get out of the way as fast as he could.
What is he supposed to do?

 

[dave_clark]

first call was a deliberate knock out, therefore PT and YC.

second one - black played the ball therefore not part of the ruck, so try stands. knock on or not, doesn't matter.

i may or may not stand by these statements when i sober up, but that was how we called them in the pub

 

[wayner]

Thanks flish .
Yes looks ok to me .as ball looks to be knocked on by acting scrum half

Although not so sure about zebo knock on ( or rather not knock on at begining of clip )

The player chasing is Conway #14. The ball appeared to hit him on the chest as he dove for it. I would think it is a knock on unless hitting the ball with your torso is not considered a knock on.

Then there is the question of what happens at the ruck. Does the ruck end as soon as the Toulon player picks the ball in one hand? If so then it doesn't seem to matter if he knocked it on. Does it matter whether it is a knock on or not in terms of deciding if the ruck is over? If it doesn't matter then they wasted a lot of time chatting about that.

The call that Nigel may have missed is Zebo deliberately knocking the ball into touch a bit earlier in the match.

 

[crossref]

I am not sure the ruck had technically ended
[LAWS]
Ending a Ruck
When the ball has been clearly won by a team at the ruck, and is available to be played, the referee calls “use it”, after which the ball must be played away from the ruck within five seconds. Sanction: Scrum.

The ruck ends and play continues when the ball leaves the ruck or when the ball in the ruck is on or over the goal line.

The ruck ends when the ball becomes unplayable. If the referee decides that the ball will probably not emerge within a reasonable time, a scrum is awarded.[/LAWS]

None of those happened

Even so, I like the try decision.

We are back to a longstanding problem, technically the scrum half isn't allowed to reach into a ruck... But it's conventional to allow it

 

[wayner]

Does it matter if the ball was knocked on or not by Toulon?

And what about Conway diving on the ball and having it hit his torso - is that a knock on or not?

 

[crossref]

No, it's not a knock on from your torso (only hands and arms )

 

[Cross]

Damm, i posted the wrong link.
Here's the correct link to the complete game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00RB6VbdZbs

Maybe someone can explain this one to me. Look at 13:10.
12 red tackles and it looks as if he does pretty much everything and anything he could do to get out of the way as fast as he could.
What is he supposed to do?

 

[wayner]

Damm, i posted the wrong link.
Here's the correct link to the complete game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00RB6VbdZbs

Maybe someone can explain this one to me. Look at 13:10.
12 red tackles and it looks as if he does pretty much everything and anything he could do to get out of the way as fast as he could.
What is he supposed to do?

Not much he could do there - you're right that Nigel is being a bit harsh as he did make an effort to get out ASAP.

Has there ever been a more bruising pair of centres than Mathieu Basteraud and Ma'a Nonu?

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Damm, i posted the wrong link.
Here's the correct link to the complete game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00RB6VbdZbs

Maybe someone can explain this one to me. Look at 13:10.
12 red tackles and it looks as if he does pretty much everything and anything he could do to get out of the way as fast as he could.
What is he supposed to do?

He just laid on the top no attempt to roll until pinned. Good call.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Does it matter if the ball was knocked on or not by Toulon?

And what about Conway diving on the ball and having it hit his torso - is that a knock on or not?

Why would it be a knock on hitting his body?

 

[L'irlandais]

Zebo very lucky not to have been carded for deliberately slapping the ball out.
His luck ran out though as the sprint back injured him and he had to be subbed off at 25 minutes of play.

 

[L'irlandais]

Black 2 knocks the ball on as he lifts it from the ruck. The ball was out so ruck over. Knock-on advantage Red, so no off side for Red 9 as he comes around. The French are calling the decision* a joke, with coach Galtier blaming the referee for their loss; by not awarding the PT and by awarding this joke try. At no point does he question why his players did absolutely nothing while waiting for the whistle. They could have touched it down too, if any of them had the nous.

*1 minute into highlight clip. Nigel Owens explains his decision to the Toulon captain at 1 minute 28ish

 

[beckett50]

Zebo very lucky not to have been carded for deliberately slapping the ball out.
His luck ran out though as the sprint back injured him and he had to be subbed off at 25 minutes of play.

First time I've this and IMHO it should be a PT and YC. Zebo went for the ball with one hand with the clear intention of knocking the ball out of play and so preventing a try being scored.

If this happened on one of my games there would be no hesitation from me :noyc:

 

[OB..]

First time I've this and IMHO it should be a PT and YC. Zebo went for the ball with one hand with the clear intention of knocking the ball out of play and so preventing a try being scored.

If this happened on one of my games there would be no hesitation from me :noyc:

If a winger stretches to catch a poor pass and ends up knocking it into touch, do you automatically penalise him?
I suspect Zebo's main thought was to prevent the opponent from getting hold of the ball. Borderline decision?

 

[beckett50]

If a winger stretches to catch a poor pass and ends up knocking it into touch, do you automatically penalise him?
I suspect Zebo's main thought was to prevent the opponent from getting hold of the ball. Borderline decision?

OB, it is about intent - especially at this level.

The Toulon player had both hands out to try and gain control of the ball and so score the try. The Munster player (Zebo) only ever had one hand extended. There is no way Zebo could have brought the ball under control.

 

[OB..]

OB, it is about intent - especially at this level.

The Toulon player had both hands out to try and gain control of the ball and so score the try. The Munster player (Zebo) only ever had one hand extended. There is no way Zebo could have brought the ball under control.

If he had managed to bring it down and fall on it ...?

He was, of course, taking a risk, but surely that is not the same as intentionally knocking the ball into touch-in-goal? The law does say it has to be intentional, and I fear we may be pushing the concept too far.

 

[winchesterref]

First time I've this and IMHO it should be a PT and YC. Zebo went for the ball with one hand with the clear intention of knocking the ball out of play and so preventing a try being scored.

If this happened on one of my games there would be no hesitation from me :noyc:

I'm with you. Clear one handed slap out of play.