New RFU League Structure

[WombleRef]

The RFU has seemingly decided to push on with 12 club leagues despite considerable angst about it in the north.

The Cups look better but I genuinely think participation numbers will start to rot over the coming years as a result.

https://asarek.wordpress.com/2015/03/10/adult-competition-review-update/

Any thoughts?

 

[Phil E]

Maybe The Northern Leagues should split off and create their own game.............oh wait!!!!!

 

[TheBFG]

Maybe The Northern Leagues should split off and create their own game.............oh wait!!!!!

yeah and if they haven't got enough players maybe they could drop a couple from the team?

 

[OB..]

Last May the Gloucestershire RFU ran a survey of attitudes to cup games (among other aspects of local rugby) and as a consequence of a positive response, we have run a cup competition for 2nd and lower XVs this season. It has not proved universally popular.

In Gloucester 3 (Level 11 - not covered by the new proposals) there are only 8 teams, and the clubs agreed that instead of last season's system of playing 3 games against each other, they would play the traditional home and away system first and then have a cup competition. That hasn't worked too well either.

Local traditional cup competitions seem to work well. Most Gloucestershire Combinations run three levels - ours is mainly played on Wednesday evenings in March.

At higher levels I think interest waned when there were no longer any payments.

 

[winchesterref]

Going against the grain, I quite like the look of it.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Do these people not realise clubs depend on bar revenue and that means guaranteed home games. Cup competitions do not give that. Reducing league matches will not help revenue and if you are unlucky with the way fixtures fall and weather, teams could go months without a home game. It has happenned in these parts already.

 

[colesy]

Do these people not realise clubs depend on bar revenue and that means guaranteed home games. Cup competitions do not give that. Reducing league matches will not help revenue and if you are unlucky with the way fixtures fall and weather, teams could go months without a home game. It has happenned in these parts already.

Not only that but when sponsors realise that they will only be getting 11 home matches instead of 13, there's bound to be some renegotiation of terms. 2 less VP lunches, less gate money, less match fees but with costs relatively fixed is not a good recipe.

 

[TheBFG]

cup in these here parts has been a farce this year, one of the finalists has played 1 game to get there and going on current form the other side will have played 1 game and 28 mins to get there!

The Vase (2nd tier) has been a little bit better, but only just.

The new "RFU Cup" looks good, but for us mere muggles reffing at L6 and below, I bet when we see anything at the business end of the comp!

 

[Camquin]

National 1 was 30 games now 28
National 2 was 30 games now 28 - now three divisons so slightly less travel.
National 3 abolished was 26 games
Regional 1 was 26 games plus Intermediate cup now 22 games plus 2 pool games and k/o cup/plate/shield
Regional 2 was 22 games plus Vase now 22 games plus 2 pool games and k/o cup/plate/shield
County leagues was 22 games plus Vase now 22 games plus cup and plate

So everyone at levels 3 to 6 loses games even though they were happy with the number of games they had.
Everyone at level 7 and below has extra games - though if anyone was asking for fewer games it was these sides.

The level 4 and 5 midlands clubs now realise it is a long way to Cornwall and Kent, and wonder why they were worried about travel to Tynedale.

There are long distance games in the level 6 and 7 pools and cups.
And these were the levels that wanted less travel.
So the club in Lancashire who was complaining about trips to Cumbria now face an away trip to Bedfordshire in the pool stages and potentially Cornwall in the knock/out stages.

And the RFU who were trying to save money is paying out close to a million on prize money and extra travel funding.

So it is all a bit of a muggers buddle.

But what did you expect from something created on the back of a envelope in a couple of weeks after the original straw man was overwhelmingly rejected.

Camquin

 

[OB..]

... and then there are the proposals for 2nd XV and lower teams. Mirror leagues at level 3 to 5. If your 1st XV gets promoted, so does your 2nd XV, regardless of how well or badly it had performed; and vice versa.

It is supposed to benefit clubs because the fixtures will be mirrored as well, making for travel savings and increased club spirit. I was talking to a friend from a level 4 club, and he wondered how you could get 2 teams plus subs and officials into a 52-seat coach.

 

[Browner]

What are the likely effect on referees - In terms of travel, development, number of games etc ???

 

[Browner]

It is supposed to benefit clubs because the fixtures will be mirrored as well, making for travel savings and increased club spirit. I was talking to a friend from a level 4 club, and he wondered how you could get2 teams plus subs and officials into a 52-seat coach..

1st xv baggsy 30 seats, 2nds get 22, :shrug:. Or the club heirarcy could arrive under separate horsepower

Or ...There are 77 & 83 seat bus options?? http://www.marchants-coaches.com.

I suspect most would hire x2 buses and the supporters would contribute to sharing the cost. I agree on the club spirit uplift though.

 

[FlipFlop]

... and then there are the proposals for 2nd XV and lower teams. Mirror leagues at level 3 to 5. If your 1st XV gets promoted, so does your 2nd XV, regardless of how well or badly it had performed; and vice versa.

It is supposed to benefit clubs because the fixtures will be mirrored as well, making for travel savings and increased club spirit. I was talking to a friend from a level 4 club, and he wondered how you could get 2 teams plus subs and officials into a 52-seat coach.

2 teams are 46 players (assuming 23 per side). Leaving space for 6 coaches/physios etc. And I'm sure at least 1 person has a car if they have a few more than 6 coaches/physios etc. It shouldn't be that hard. Hire an extra mini-bus if necessary, and one of the coaches/physios/committee men can drive!

 

[OB..]

2 teams are 46 players (assuming 23 per side). Leaving space for 6 coaches/physios etc. And I'm sure at least 1 person has a car if they have a few more than 6 coaches/physios etc. It shouldn't be that hard. Hire an extra mini-bus if necessary, and one of the coaches/physios/committee men can drive!

The person concerned is the one who books the transport. He has been doing it for years, so is well clued in.

 

[WombleRef]

Maybe The Northern Leagues should split off and create their own game.............oh wait!!!!!

I've seen it happen from afar at my home club. They were comfortably capable of putting 3 full 15s out each week at the start of the season but the stop and start nature of then new league structure has meant they can barely put two sides out - with the second side having no subs.

I know of a club in the North who have 2nd and 3rd teams with around 9 players a match. The 3rd team players can't play up a tier as they just aren't good enough.

They get in trouble everytime the 3rd team plays and gets dicked instead of the 2nds who would play and get dicked.

 

[Browner]

I know of a club in the North who have 2nd and 3rd teams with around 9 players a match. The 3rd team players can't play up a tier as they just aren't good enough.

They get in trouble everytime the 3rd team plays and gets dicked instead of the 2nds who would play and get dicked.

Am i missing something obvious??? but it sounds like 9x2= they have a full 2nd team and no 3rds team!

Even if they lose heavily every week , then they will presumably get relegated until they find their true competitive level.

You simply can't manufacture another scenario, surely?

 

[dave_clark]

Even if they lose heavily every week , then they will presumably get relegated until they find their true competitive level.

or fold, with the players either finding another club or something "better" to do with their weekends.

 

[Browner]

or fold, with the players either finding another club or something "better" to do with their weekends.

So what you saying dave , sending out 9 players at two different 'levels' is a good alternative?!!?!? ....if I was the opposition I'd be thoroughly fed up facing 9 players.

 

[TigerCraig]

... and then there are the proposals for 2nd XV and lower teams. Mirror leagues at level 3 to 5. If your 1st XV gets promoted, so does your 2nd XV, regardless of how well or badly it had performed; and vice versa.

It is supposed to benefit clubs because the fixtures will be mirrored as well, making for travel savings and increased club spirit. I was talking to a friend from a level 4 club, and he wondered how you could get 2 teams plus subs and officials into a 52-seat coach.

Which is the Australian system - except we dont have promotion/relegation in most cases. All three or four grades of each club play each other at the same venue, one after the other. Makes for better club spirit, big bar and canteen takings plus means a ready pool of subs who can back up.

I'm amazed at the number of games you guys play. Our top level semi pro guys play 18 games, plus finals if they qualify. So a max of 21 games - some may go on and play ARC if it survives. Lower levels play 14 or 16 games plus finals. And we don't have any cups.

 

[WombleRef]

Am i missing something obvious??? but it sounds like 9x2= they have a full 2nd team and no 3rds team!

Even if they lose heavily every week , then they will presumably get relegated until they find their true competitive level.

You simply can't manufacture another scenario, surely?

While normally I would agree there is the safety issue that the different levels bring. The 3rd team is still losing every game even with a few second teamers in there (both sides are out of place).