New Score Card design

crossref


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Phone is lighter, and smaller than, a notebook and is waterproof. Therfore never an issue. It's both accurate and clear. What's not to like? Tech is out there to help. Embrace it!

My phone doesn't work well in the rain ...
 

Patrick

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This is a reply from Crossref back on post #5:


Step 1.
Red scores a Try (5pts) (you didn't specifically state this but, can't convert from nothing so...):
Demo Step 1 (Small).jpg

Step 2. Red successfully kicks for Conversion (2pts)
Demo Step 2 (Small).jpg

Step 3. Blue scores a PK (Penalty Kick - 3pts)
Demo Step 3 (Small).jpg

Step 4. Red scores another Try (5pts) - this is what it would like like at this point:
Demo Step 4 (Small).jpg

Step 5. Assuming the match ended there, this would be how I would finalize the score card:
Demo Step 5 (Small).jpg


I don't track the times for an of it. I could though. Let me scratch something to show what that might look like - let me know if that's helpful.


Patrick
 
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crossref


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Patrick, I think my brain works differently from yours !
I am endlessly interested in other people systems , but in the end always come back to mine

Two things I think are important

- The sequence of scores (and
the rough time is even better)

- Positively recording a missed kick , so that looking back you can be certain it was a miss, and not a failure to record it
 

crossref


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why is that important to you?

We had a go at this in posts 13 and 14

- looking at my scorecard the narrative and structure of the game can be seen, so it's easier to recall each try and score

- so in case anyone checks the score with me, rather than saying, for example "you scored four tries and converted three of them" I can say "you scored four tries, you missed the conversion for the third one, just before half time" and in saying that we will both recall the kick . So I think it's more useful

- I can see the half time score (I draw a line)

- and if there is any card I note the time, which in turn when I write my report I know the score at that time, without having to note it on pitch in the moment

Generally speaking it seems to take no effort at all the write the time ..and have lots of benefits. Alternatively in my system because each score is a new line I can omit the time, and still have the sequence

Here's my card, for easy comparison with Patrick's . I think mine is simpler , and conveys more information, more intuitively

But I know everyone likes their own system :)



View attachment 3981
 
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Flish


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why is that important to you?

Some countries you have to, for example I reffed in Spain (well Catalunya to be precise) last year, and even at Junior level they record everything, eg subs, time, player number on / off, time scored (player number etc), so they don't have score cards at all, just sequential notes in the book, similar to Crossrefs - I've toyed with doing the same myself (albeit maybe less detail), but not convinced myself of the full benefit of it yet.
 

Patrick

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We had a go at this in posts 13 and 14

- looking at my scorecard the narrative and structure of the game can be seen, so it's easier to recall each try and score

- so in case anyone checks the score with me, rather than saying, for example "you scored four tries and converted three of them" I can say "you scored four tries, you missed the conversion for the third one, just before half time" and in saying that we will both recall the kick . So I think it's more useful

- I can see the half time score (I draw a line)

- and if there is any card I note the time, which in turn when I write my report I know the score at that time, without having to note it on pitch in the moment

Generally speaking it seems to take no effort at all the write the time ..and have lots of benefits. Alternatively in my system because each score is a new line I can omit the time, and still have the sequence

Here's my card, for easy comparison with Patrick's . I think mine is simpler , and conveys more information, more intuitively

But I know everyone likes their own system :)



View attachment 3981

Come on - that's not a score card.

Side by side:
Demo Step 5 (Small).jpg Crossref's score card.jpg

- Who are the Captains?
- What are their number (positions)?
- Where did you play?
- Who won the coin toss?
- What was the decision of the coin toss winner?
- Where do you record Sub?
- How do you keep track of how many subs have come on - there's a max of 8?
- When did you play (date)?
- Who are you (where's your name and ID #)?

I usually put a vertical slash between points to indicate the end of a half but didn't on my sample.

I'm being somewhat nit-picky but, you asked me to fill one out to your script and I did, blow by blow.

I can glance at mine and know without ANY math how many Trys have been scored and I can say, in one glance how many Conversions there are - as in, to the Captain that might ask, I would glance down and say:
' Red, 2 Trys, 1 Conv, Blue, 1 PK' - without having to do any math - super quick.

One of the big problems I have with the blank scrap of paper argument is, you sometimes miss recording something if there isn't a box prompting you to fill it in.

Anyway, glad the site is back up. Guess I'll go back and reply to people's questions.

I write more of a narrative on the back of the same page given Time is Off, I have time for that.
 
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Patrick

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Yes, go on, and I will show you what my scorecard would look like

AIUI you do record missed conversion, that's a single line, rather than a cross, isn't it ?

Exactly - 1 Slash = Try, 2 Slashes (Cross) = Try+Conv.
Try v Try and Conv.jpg

(Sorry about the delay with the full request to fill my card out - tons of server Errors on this site lately...)
 

crossref


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ah, I have a facing page that shows some of that extra data, like names of captains , I will post that up as well.

But I collect different data from you .. example i don't record who won the toss and the decision (don't think that is imptt) I do record who kicked off.

My games are almost all unlimited interchanges, so I don't have to record them
 

Patrick

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Gotcha....kudos for you to make that effort to get what you need. Personally I havent got the time to worry about recording times and never have had the inclination (and I have the lucky luxury that most of my games are recorded so I can review them at liesure afterwards)

To be honest with you, my card probably has more options for info that isn't necessary to record but, I started it in 2015 to this point.

The reason I mention this is you're exactly correct - at this point, if something goes south on the pitch, their are at least five recordings of it.

Seems like every team in the past two years has asked me to wear the GPS arm cuff to get the camera to follow me.

Tons and tons of recording.

THANK GOD also - I had an incident last year where the coaches tried to attack me while I was doing a ConCus test on one of their players! What a mess. NOT one second to pull my score card out to do anything - my job turned from ref to cop in seconds.

Again, thank god for video.
 

Patrick

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Indeed. No criticism from me. Time stats are not something I can or will record on the run.
I use this score sheet...and just make stroke in the relevent box. I keep it minimal.

View attachment 3982

Mine is pretty close to this in terms of overall boxes of info to collect. I can see this being something someone can learn and use for their entire reffing life.

One of my problems with the open field tic marks is they are two easy to make a mistake or draw outside the line. And, the Try and Conv are not connected.

Once I got the idea to use one circle to record both a Try and a Conv (if awarded) in one space, it was an immense improvement in my accuracy and 'story telling' from the card.
 

Patrick

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So, what would it look like , with the same sequence number fnscores as post 22 ?

Again, sorry for the delay in replaying to your specific question - this server was taking a dump.
 

Patrick

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Patrick, I think my brain works differently from yours !
I am endlessly interested in other people systems , but in the end always come back to mine

Two things I think are important

- The sequence of scores (and
the rough time is even better)

- Positively recording a missed kick , so that looking back you can be certain it was a miss, and not a failure to record it

Mine has a very specific sequence - one of the things i like about mine.

Adding the approximate time - I have an idea how to do that. I'll try to put something up tomorrow ....

And, if you look at mine, no second slash (cross) is 'no conv' - blank is positive. Yours doesn't have an indication that a Conv was attempted but not awarded. You just didn't add a '+ 2' after your '5'.

Same thing but soooo much less writing and thinking.
 

Patrick

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ah, I have a facing page that shows some of that extra data, like names of captains , I will post that up as well.

But I collect different data from you .. example i don't record who won the toss and the decision (don't think that is imptt) I do record who kicked off.

My games are almost all unlimited interchanges, so I don't have to record them

I know, I know - it's so stupid - I record the coin toss and kick v receive ONLY because I do 7's tournaments and after the first 2 or 3 matches, I can't remember AND most of the time, neither can the Captains - they're more tired then I am.

Same for full 15's - sometimes the three of us (Captain, Captain and Sir) forgets how it all started 50 min ago...!
 

Patrick

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I probably should have said this at the outset - I fully understand and appreciate the personal relationship we all have with these cards.

Especially as we get older - nobody wants to look stupid because they can't find where to put down a mark for this or that.

It's a tool and we all have our preference and, for good or bad, change is a bitch.

I'm fascinated by the entire subject and love how Crossref asked me and someone else to fill their personal card out to a common script of events / scores.

That might be a great idea for a thread all by itself.

Layout the script and then have people put pictures up illustrating their five steps.

This was Crossref's:
Let's say red scored a converted try after 10 mins (assume and show first Try)
Then at 15 mins blue score pK
Then at 20 red score a try, miss the conversion

Anyway, super interesting replies and such!

Patrick
 

crossref


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Except that I don't think we want the steps , just what does the card look like at the end

(Because the key advantage of my layout is that you can see the steps built in !)
 

Rich_NL

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A schematic for my sheet in a theoretical game - it's all handwritten in a blank lined notebook

Code:
20/2/20         RC Red            Blue RFC*
14:31           T C     17'           DG  23'
                T -     40'       T -     32'
                ==============================
                     PG 72'       T C     41'
                                  T C     76'
                                  T -     79'
                ==============================
                15                  27



                
                                  5 Off HI 17'
                13 YC HT 74.15'
                                  
Subs            111               11111 11

Teams arranged on the starting sides according to the view from the clubhouse/stands/technical zone/whatever's obvious to me. The * is the team who kicks off. I note the time of kickoff just in case my watch explodes, my reserve watch is smashed, there's no pitchside clock etc.

We do limited interchanges, so I keep a tally (never get close to the 12 allowed). That's the one time I feel short of time and want to minimise pencil strokes - between a score and a conversion/restart I'm good.

I note that Blue 5 went off with a head injury so can't come back on (when red scored, I remember). 13 was YC'ed for a high tackle 74 minutes in (the first wide phase following the kickoff from their penalty goal) and blue used the man overlap to score two more in the closing minutes.

- Who are the Captains/their positions?
I talk to the captains before the match, and don't generally forget their names. It's on the team sheet if I need it post-match, and if I forget in-game it's a lot quicker to call "captain!" than to pull out my card and look it up.

- Where did you play?

I remember the matches, and I can always look it up with the date and the teams if I need to.

- Who won the coin toss?
Doesn't matter to me, what matters are the ends and who kicks off.

- How do you keep track of how many subs have come on - there's a max of 8?
Tally only

- Who are you (where's your name and ID #)?
If I get confused, I can look at the name tag in my shorts or ask a friendly policeman for help ;)

I really envy you guys with the filmed matches, I have to say.
 
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crossref


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Rich NL you and I think alike !

(on scorecard design )
 
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