NZ v SA advantage incident

damo


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In the NZ v SA game there was an incident that I think deserves some discussion.

Owens appeared to play advantage for a forward pass from Green even after another offence from Black.

https://youtu.be/GTO8dBsRMBE?t=1060


  • offload from Green 1 leading to the break was definitely forward
  • Owens got a call from his AR about it (you can see him reaching for his earpiece) and then he calls "advantage over for the forward pass".
  • At the next stoppage, Owens explains "the pass was forward before the tackle without the ball over there".




It seems to me that he accepted there was a tackle without the ball but played advantage for the previous knock on. To follow the law he should have either come back for the scrum as the first offence, or penalized the early tackle as foul play. Just playing on wasn't really an option because there was an offence by both teams.


Interesting question whether it should have been PK to Boks or Scrum to AB's. While technically foul play" it was pretty innocuous; and really just occurred because the Saffer had overrun the pass. If the pass had been decent Cane's timing would have been perfect.

I kind of suspect that Owen's explanation was more of post facto explanation rather than what actually happened (i.e. he didn't see the early tackle, but felt he had to defend his miss in a plausible way). He has form for this - In Dunedin a few weeks ago he implausibly claimed he awarded a PK rather than a try as a post facto explanation.

(As an aside, actually I think the first offence is Green 1 playing the ball in an offside position at the ruck, but that doesn't appear to be something that is enforced at any level anymore).
 

Ian_Cook


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I thought it sounded odd at the time, but looking at the footage, the pass from Green 1 to Green 8 was C&O forward so the interference by Black 7 on Green 15 was immaterial.
 

damo


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I thought it sounded odd at the time, but looking at the footage, the pass from Green 1 to Green 8 was C&O forward so the interference by Black 7 on Green 15 was immaterial.
Sure, but that's my point.

IF Owens thinks Black 7 did hold Green 15 then Owens cannot just say advantage over. He either has to play the first offence (scrum to Black) or if he deems the second offence is foul play then play that (PK to Green).

[LAWS]8.5 More than one infringement
(b) If advantage is being played following an infringement by one team and then the other team commit an infringement, the referee blows the whistle and applies the sanctions associated with the first infringement. If either infringement is for foul play, the referee applies the appropriate sanction for that offence. The referee may also temporarily suspend, or order off, the offending player.[/LAWS]

Or do we just admit that Owens is allowed to ref by his own lawbook these days and it's fine because it makes for a better game?
 

crossref


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I think it was a confusing passage of play (even before all this, at the moment the youtube clip starts, he calls advatage over for a *previous* offence) and NO lost track of exactly what had happened, and bluffed it.
 

Ian_Cook


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Sure, but that's my point.

IF Owens thinks Black 7 did hold Green 15 then Owens cannot just say advantage over. He either has to play the first offence (scrum to Black) or if he deems the second offence is foul play then play that (PK to Green).

[LAWS]8.5 More than one infringement
(b) If advantage is being played following an infringement by one team and then the other team commit an infringement, the referee blows the whistle and applies the sanctions associated with the first infringement. If either infringement is for foul play, the referee applies the appropriate sanction for that offence. The referee may also temporarily suspend, or order off, the offending player.[/LAWS]

Or do we just admit that Owens is allowed to ref by his own lawbook these days and it's fine because it makes for a better game?

If NO thinks the interference is immaterial then it doesn't enter his thinking. Once he gets the Green 8 forward throw call from the AR, its scrum advantage to Black. The ball falls to a Black player comes back to Black 9 who passes to Black 10 who belts it 50m downtown. If Black have "played the ball as they wish" then advantage over. I just don't think he worded his reply very well when the Green player asked him about Black 7 on Green 15
 
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