[CLUB RUGBY] Obstruction

leaguerefaus


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No way in the world is that a try. Having eyes on the ball does not excuse taking out an opponent wayyyyyyyyy before the ball gets there. If the ball was arriving and they were attempting to catch it - different story. You can't just run around like a chook with your head cut off and claim "eyes on the ball" though.

If we followed this decision as precedent, all a player would need to do is look to the sky and he could take out whomever he wanted.
 

Ian_Cook


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No way in the world is that a try. Having eyes on the ball does not excuse taking out an opponent wayyyyyyyyy before the ball gets there. If the ball was arriving and they were attempting to catch it - different story. You can't just run around like a chook with your head cut off and claim "eyes on the ball" though.

If we followed this decision as precedent, all a player would need to do is look to the sky and he could take out whomever he wanted.

I knew something like this would eventually happen with the stupid protocols for competing for a kicked ball that the game is currently being refereed under.

If the Blue player jumps for the ball, and that collision happens, then the Red player gets YC/RC
If the Red player jumps for the ball, and that collision happens, then the Blue player gets YC/RC
If both players jump for the ball then there is no penalty because it is a fair contest

So why, I ask, is it also not also a fair contest when neither player jumps for the ball?
Does the Red player really have to jump and put himself at risk of serious injury in order to not be penalised when the inevitable crash happens?

Also, it is worth noting that NEITHER of the players were near enough to where the ball came down in order to be legitimately competing for it.

OSPvEDI.png


I stopped the video here at the point where the ball is touching the ground on landing. Its at least six feet away from the two players lying prone after the collision.

While an argument could be made that the Red player deliberately took out the Blue player, an equal argument could be made that the Blue player deliberately planted himself in the Red player's running line.

What is more likely to have happened is that both players had eyes on the ball, both misjudged where the ball was coming down, they didn't see each other, and they collided.

For mine, its just a collision, play-on, try stands.
 

talbazar


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Having eyes on the ball does not excuse taking out an opponent wayyyyyyyyy before the ball gets there.

Screen Shot 2016-12-04 at 10.37.30 AM.jpg

From that still (a second before the "incident"), it is Clear & Obvious to you who takes who out?
From the video itself, without taking into consideration who catches the ball, it is Clear & Obvious to you who takes who out?

From the still, there's 1 Red and 2 Blue (or in a bigger circle: 2 Red, 6 Blue), so, if there is an intent, it's for Blue to make sure Red doesn't score, don't you think?

I'm being a bit thick on purpose here... For demonstration sake.

As Ian said: it's a collision, this kind of things happen in rugby, play on. And try!

Cheers,
Pierre.
 

beckett50


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This has raised great debate on other media platforms.

I agree with Ian_Cook that the try stands. It was a collision between two players running toward a ball.

If we take out the fact that the ball is in the air and assume that they are chasing a grubber kick through and collided would your decision be any different? Common sense needs to prevail.

TMO and referee worked well and the decision, IMO, was correct.
 

didds

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I used the "grubber kick" train of thought and came up with the same answer - try stands.

Ian's point is well made.

didds
 

DocY


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From the video itself, without taking into consideration who catches the ball, it is Clear & Obvious to you who takes who out?

Yes, quite clear. Blue is essentially still, shuffling his feet prior to jumping for the ball. Red had misjudged where the ball will land and clattered the would be catcher. It's as well he was as early as he was - had the catcher jumped there'd likely have been a card.

And yes, had the ball been bobbling along the ground rather than in the air I'd still call it tackling off the ball. Unintentional, yes, but still playing a man without the ball.
 

Balones

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Spot on refereeing decision. Both players took each other out. Ball was nowhere near either. Both should have been more careful.
 

Cross

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I can see both sides here, but i'd be inclined to say no try based on the fact that blue was standing and not running towards the ball.
This was not two guys running against each other but a guy standing being hit by another guy running towards him.

It was a collision between two players running toward a ball.
That is simply not true. Blue was still (his movement was anecdotal at best).

The problem i have with this outcome is that it would allow any player to charge an opponent as long as his eyes are on the ball. That is, well, ridiculous.

Blue was standing, the ball was coming towards where he was standing, red knocks him down, red was nowhere even near of catching the ball.
 

SimonSmith


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I think Blue is in motion and not looking around him.
 

didds

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I can see both sides here, but i'd be inclined to say no try based on the fact that blue was standing and not running towards the ball.
This was not two guys running against each other but a guy standing being hit by another guy running towards him.


That is simply not true. Blue was still (his movement was anecdotal at best).

The problem i have with this outcome is that it would allow any player to charge an opponent as long as his eyes are on the ball. That is, well, ridiculous.

Blue was standing, the ball was coming towards where he was standing, red knocks him down, red was nowhere even near of catching the ball.

... and blue was nowhere near where the ball landed anyway.

didds
 

Ian_Cook


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I can see both sides here, but i'd be inclined to say no try based on the fact that blue was standing and not running towards the ball.

Blue was standing, the ball was coming towards where he was standing, red knocks him down, red was nowhere even near of catching the ball.

And you don't think its relevant that Blue had absolutely no chance of catching the ball were he was standing? (it landed at least six feet away)

Would you still think Red was at fault if the same thing happened, but the ball came down six feet behind the Blue player? (i.e., the Red player is running to where the ball is alighting).


The problem i have with this outcome is that it would allow any player to charge an opponent as long as his eyes are on the ball. That is, well, ridiculous.

Really, even though, for over 125 years, "keep your eyes on the ball" has been a mantra in the Game, taught to young players from the moment they start playing?
 
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Balones

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The Ospreys No 11 was not watching where he was running and clearly obstructed the Edinburgh winger and caused him to go off balance before the other collision so perhaps he should have been penalised as well?:shrug:
 

didds

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hmmm... so why wasn;t he?

didds
 

Ian_Cook


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Because the officials decided that there hadn't been an act of foul play.


Simon,

You didds and I are on the same page regarding the collision, but I think didds was talking about the other bit of obstruction by Blue 11 on the eventual try scorer, Red 15.
 

Phil E


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Two players no where near the ball run into each other, there is no offence. Play on.

Had it happened anywhere else on the pitch it would be the same. Play on.

Good decision by the referee, atrocious comments from the Ospreys coach, I hope he is suitably dealt with.
 
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