Off feet, tackle not completed

[Chris_j]

I was focussed on this bit

I have had this situation occur several times. Blue with the ball, Red comes in to tackle, however goes for the tear away, hands on the ball not the player. Blue loses feet and is hanging in the air from the ball, still no tackle. To me, the tackle rules, no release do not apply, tackle was never made. We now have a player (Blue)

off their feet preventing play by hanging on the ball.

Thoughts?

if the ball carrier is held and off their feet what do we have?

 

[Chris_j]

It is either tackle (ball carrier brought to ground) or play on. Never a penalty against the ball carrier.

 

[The Fat]

It is either tackle (ball carrier brought to ground) or play on. Never a penalty against the ball carrier.

Correct.
It was a poor choice of wording in th OP as saying the ball carrier is off his feet gives the impression he is on the ground rather than dangling/hanging.

 

[Dickie E]

most likely outcome will be a maul as other players arrive.

 

[RobLev]

I was focussed on this bit


if the ball carrier is held and off their feet what do we have?

The OP is very clear that the BC is not held.

 

[OB..]

Blue loses feet and is hanging in the air from the ball

Can red really hold the ball completely distinct from the ball carrier
I'd say that in practice red is holding both the ball and the ball carrier and therefore if the ball carrier goes to ground we have a tackle

The OP is very clear that the BC is not held.

Like crossref, I challenged the reality of the OP claim.

Even if you accept it as an academic hypothetical situation (and why would you want to?), I cannot see that either player is acting illegally. Being off his feet is a total red herring.

 

[crossref]

I agree with OB.. I don't accept the idea that red can be holding the ball, but not the ball carrier - it's very unrealistic and unusual idea and no one else wathcing is likely to share that perception, so applying it only makes things difficult for yourself (as the OP demonstrated).

I think that the way to ref this is
1- take th eposition that red is holding the ball and the ball carrier
2- so if blue goes off his feet, it's a tackle
3- if blue remains on his feet, play on (very likely a maul will quickly happen)

 

[Browner]

I agree with OB.. I don't accept the idea that red can be holding the ball, but not the ball carrier - it's very unrealistic and unusual idea and no one else wathcing is likely to share that perception, so applying it only makes things difficult for yourself (as the OP demonstrated).

I think that the way to ref this is
1- take the position that red is holding the ball and the ball carrier
2- so if blue goes off his feet, it's a tackle
3- if blue remains on his feet, play on (very likely a maul will quickly happen)

Yep player contact is usually associated with ball contact.

But if this was rugby , AND blue was able to remain stable & on feet AND only contact the ball not contact the player , then 'Mrs on knee' is required to release the ball - right??? ( albeit unlikely)

 

[crossref]

gosh you must have spent a long time searching for that photo! That must be almost exactly what fzxjkg describes in the OP!

I'd play it as a tackle.

 

[OB..]

Yep player contact is usually associated with ball contact.
But if this was rugby , AND blue was able to remain stable & on feet AND only contact the ball not contact the player , then 'Mrs on knee' is required to release the ball - right??? ( albeit unlikely)

With that amount of contact on the ball, there is no way green could be hanging in the air while held up by Blue (as described in the OP).

If that was rugby then Green has been tackled, and Blue is the tackle assist. Blue must release and can then go for the ball (provided she comes through the gate).

 

[Dickie E]

I'd play it as a tackle.

me too

 

[Browner]

With that amount of contact on the ball, there is no way green could be hanging in the air while held up by Blue (as described in the OP).

If that was rugby then Green has been tackled, and Blue is the tackle assist. Blue must release and can then go for the ball (provided she comes through the gate).

Then we disagree, the player heading to ground isn't in any way held , the ball might be, but that's not enough.

[LAWS][FONT=fs_blakeregular]A tackle occurs when the ball carrier is held by one or more opponents and is brought to ground.
[/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]A ball carrier who is not held is not a tackled player and a tackle has not taken place.[/FONT][/LAWS]

 

[crossref]

Then we disagree, the player heading to ground isn't in any way held , the ball might be, but that's not enough.

which is, indeed, the view taken in the OP. And so ..

I blew it up [...] The coach lost his mind claiming it was still a tackle and Red should have been penalized for not releasing in the tackle. I said - no tackle, no requirement to release, general play. Didn't go over well to say the least

 

[Browner]

which is, indeed, the view taken in the OP. And so ..

As long as the referee was consistent in his interpretation of this rare ( and subject to interpretation) occurrence during that fixture, then the coach should loosen his pressure release valve a tad.

 

[The Fat]

The OP suggests that red has only ball but that blue ball carrier loses his footing and is hanging/dangling/levitating somewhere between the red player and earth whilst still holding the ball.
Can someone please show me a picture/video of a defender being able to support the weight of a ball carrier by having hands on only approximately 30% of the ball?
I would think it will be a much bigger task to find such evidence than producing the netball pic (although good effort by Browner to find that one).

Defender and ball carrier both have a death grip on the ball means there is contact in 99.9% of rugby cases for me and as such, it will be open play until either a tackle occurs or a maul forms. Let's be practical.

 

[Browner]

The OP suggests that red has only ball but that blue ball carrier loses his footing and is hanging/dangling/levitating somewhere between the red player and earth whilst still holding the ball.
Can someone please show me a picture/video of a defender being able to support the weight of a ball carrier by having hands on only approximately 30% of the ball?
I would think it will be a much bigger task to find such evidence than producing the netball pic (although good effort by Browner to find that one).

Defender and ball carrier both have a death grip on the ball means there is contact in 99.9% of rugby cases for me and as such, it will be open play until either a tackle occurs or a maul forms. Let's be practical.

The need to micro analyse/interpret at elite level, has indeed buggered up such things for the grass roots game, I prefer a " taken to ground" rather than a "knee hair gets him sanctuary of being released" interpretation , this fits with a mauling wrestling contest for possession much better IMHO.