If blue loses his footing and goes to ground and U don't feel a tackle has taken place, ie red has c&o grasped only the ball, then blue has to let go as he is off his feet.
Disagree. The best you can find for this contention is the definitions to law 14. Those are generally accepted to mean that a player on the ground is out of the game. We have no player on the ground here. If yo contend that the player is "off his feet", you also have to apply that to every other player who is held above the ground - including jumpers at lineouts and restarts - and we can all watch pro matches every day to realise that simply is not the case.
looks like the consensus is the way I read it. Once Blue is off his feet, Red should have the opportunity to play the ball - still no tackle.
Assuming that Blue's knees are not on the ground, this is correct as far as there being no tackle. Open play. However, you then go astray ... particularly as regards Red having rtights to play the ball without hindrance
I blew it up ... especially in the most recent case because Red had a clear path to the try zone. ... I said - no tackle, no requirement to release, general play.
Your words were accurate - open play, no tackle, no requirement (on either player) to release. So why did you blow the whistle????
Didn't go over well to say the least.
Not surprised!
Thank you all for the sanity check!!!
You are in denial :wink:
On the contrary I think the consensus here is that once blue is off his feet it was a tackle..
Let's unpick the OP. Blue is in possession of the ball. Red grabs it and only it [allegedly]. This is indeed possible - but it's very unlikely. The probability is that he also has a little bit of the Blue player in his grasp - call it his pinky. Make life easy for yourself - assume that to be the case whenever this situation arises. You are the sole judge of fact on the field of play. To call it any other way makes your life pretty much impossible - far too picky an approach for the complex dynamism that is Rugby. We now need to be very clear about what happens to Blue ball carrier.
According to the OP, Blue loses his feet is is dangling from the ball but without his knees touching the ground - no tackle. If accurate, this is correct - but it's very, very unlikely. At best, in a wrestle Red will have his arms at chest height. Blue will have the ball on his chest and under his shoulder. Even tat his height, his knees are liable to hit the ground unless the tackler is 30cm taller than him. But if Blue dangles from arms' length - his knees definitely hit the ground. Tackle. I'm thinking tackle 90% probable - call Tackle Made and give Blue the chance to place the ball. However, OP disagrees and he was there. Let's move on with the 10% prospect of no tackle. We now need to think whether either player is doing anything illegal.
Let's look at Blue ball carrier, and the contention that as he was "off his feet", he should release the ball. This does not hold water. There seems to be agreement that this is open play. In open play, a player is permitted to have both feet off the ground and to continue the game. Situations in which this occurs are: a) running (by definition, involves both feet being simultaneously off the ground); b) jumping for a high ball; c) being lifted and supported by colleagues while claiming a restart (or technically any other kick, though in practice rarer than hens' teeth). I suggest it was also legal for Matt Tait to try to offload the ball while he was being carried along by Gavin Henson. All these players are "off their feet" according to the OP's contention, as supported by Pinky. But a PK in any of them would be as bizarre as this one was. The contention cannot be supported.
That being the case, we have no player on the ground to rule "out of the game"; no tackle; open play; and no offence. Play on.
