[Law] Offence before the game

[Shelflife]

Had a situation once, on a bitterly cold wet day , blue were on the pitch ready to go and red were very slow leaving the dressing room. Clear gamesmanship at play hoping that the other team would get cold etc. I wasnt sure what to do, knocked on the door to tell them to move on ,door closed again nearly in my face.

Eventually opened the door jammed it open with my foot and demanded that they take to the pitch now or forfeit the game on the basis of not taking to the pitch. They went out but its petty stuff like that that irks me.

 

[Camquin]

I have never seen a game start with a penalty, but once the players have entered the playing arena they are under the control of the referee, so if a fight broke out you could issue a card and continue - though I think I might simply call the game off and head for the changing room if there is that much bad blood.

 

[crossref]

I have never seen a game start with a penalty, but once the players have entered the playing arena they are under the control of the referee, so if a fight broke out you could issue a card and continue - though I think I might simply call the game off and head for the changing room if there is that much bad blood.

say this is on the pitch an hour before KO .... an actual card (?) and then they still start with 15?
if it is on the pitch 1 minute before KO .... an actual card and they start with 14 ?

(I am not sure what the answer is)

 

[Pegleg]

I would suggest that if it is after the team sheets are issued the player does not start and 14 men if he's on the sheet. If he's not on the team sheet then Code of conduct and they keep their 15 players.

Of course if it happens before the team sheet is handed in then he will not be on it. I can't think why.

 

[crossref]

the merit tables round us don't use team sheets....

 

[OB..]

Had a situation once, on a bitterly cold wet day , blue were on the pitch ready to go and red were very slow leaving the dressing room. Clear gamesmanship at play hoping that the other team would get cold etc. I wasnt sure what to do, knocked on the door to tell them to move on ,door closed again nearly in my face.

Eventually opened the door jammed it open with my foot and demanded that they take to the pitch now or forfeit the game on the basis of not taking to the pitch. They went out but its petty stuff like that that irks me.

Take blue back into the dressing room to warm up, then go and have a strong word with red. Set a new time and require both teams to come out when you knock.

I would also make sure the society knows about this ploy. Other referees may have had the same problem.

 

[beckett50]

This is a common problem at the lower levels of the game and that I'm afraid you have to manage.

Very often there is no coach and you are dealing with the Captain in all matters. What it does do is ensure that any 50/50 decisions in the match don't go their way - human nature isn't it?:smile:

However, as to sanction? The match has yet to start because the game clock is not running - as you haven't signalled the start of the game - and you don't want to appear a c**k and lose the confidence/good will of either team before the kick-off.

I would suggest a quiet word with the skipper when they do appear - assuming you haven't tried the 'foot in the door' technique - telling how disappointed you are with his lack of courtesy and respect to you and the opposition by taking to the field late despite your notifications easier agreements as to the time that the kick-off would take place.

 

[Pegleg]

the merit tables round us don't use team sheets....

Often a problem. We are compulsory for League and cup BUT they are often late and poorly filled in. You have no hope with nothing at all. It Will be "he's just here to watch".

 

[menace]

This is a common problem at the lower levels of the game and that I'm afraid you have to manage.

Very often there is no coach and you are dealing with the Captain in all matters. What it does do is ensure that any 50/50 decisions in the match don't go their way - human nature isn't it?:smile:

However, as to sanction? The match has yet to start because the game clock is not running - as you haven't signalled the start of the game - and you don't want to appear a c**k and lose the confidence/good will of either team before the kick-off.

I would suggest a quiet word with the skipper when they do appear - assuming you haven't tried the 'foot in the door' technique - telling how disappointed you are with his lack of courtesy and respect to you and the opposition by taking to the field late despite your notifications easier agreements as to the time that the kick-off would take place.

The fact that they disrespected your authority probably already means you've lost their confidence and good will already? You probably can't do it any more harm and it might snap them back into showing some respect, especially if they want it to go 2 ways.

If they're late onto the pitch for no good reason, I've told them when I get to the middle I'll be blowing the whistle for time on (and told opposition I was doing it). Usually they get moving.

 

[TigerCraig]

Our games have to start and finish on time, so if a team isnt on the field we have to start our watch. If they arent there within 10 minutes they forfeit.

From our rules:

12.2 Any club which is not prepared to commence a match within ten minutes of the official kick-off time shall forfeit the match without right of appeal. The referee shall note such occurrence on the result sheet.
12.3 Any time lost in commencing a match for whatever reason shall be deducted from the allocated time for that match.
12.4 Injury time will be added to the playing time in first grade matches only

 

[SimonSmith]

I give my teams a 10, 5 and 2 shout. They have no excuse for not knowing where we are in the process, and when it's time to go.

I haven't had the team refusing to start - well, not for a long time - but I think if it did happen, I would make sure that they heard the warning that if they didn't start N-O-W, then I would be taking appropriate action.

I agree with Menace upthread - if you let it go, they win that encounter. And for all the "don't appear a dick" ideas, there's another team here; the more they wait, the less confidence they have in you. And they've done nothing wrong

 

[Pegleg]

I give my teams a 10, 5 and 2 shout. They have no excuse for not knowing where we are in the process, and when it's time to go.

Good plan.

I haven't had the team refusing to start - well, not for a long time - but I think if it did happen, I would make sure that they heard the warning that if they didn't start N-O-W, then I would be taking appropriate action.

But that's the crux of the matter. What is "appropriate action"?

I agree with Menace upthread - if you let it go, they win that encounter. And for all the "don't appear a dick" ideas, there's another team here; the more they wait, the less confidence they have in you. And they've done nothing wrong

Total agreement. One side is compliant. They deserve "reward" the other is not they deserve some sort of sanction. The problem is what.

Perhaps a FK if (say) 5 mins late - DELAYING and the escalate to a PK at 10 mins. If still not out maybe YC the captain and this is an area that he should be in charge of? Less happy about the last part but could it be workable?

 

[Balones]

But that's the crux of the matter. What is "appropriate action"?

"If you are not out in 1 minutes lads, I'm off home".:smile:

 

[Blackberry]

As I get older I have discovered more fully the two alternative quiver of arrows at our disposal, and the first of them talking with teams / players as a fellow rugby man. "Come on guys, reds are waiting for you, they're out on time and ready to go" or "Come on guys this is not in the spirit of the game". The second quiver, and my god this is so powerful, is the consequences; a word with the blazers, the ref's society, the county. This is the rugby equivalent of Armageddon, with subsequent quiet words in peoples' ears being the verbal equivalent of a smack with a baseball bat.

In my early days at a school match in February I eventually sent the on time team back into the changing rooms (they loved this) and only called them out once the late team were fully ready on the pitch. And it took me ages to walk the monstrous, arduous 200 metre trek back to the clubhouse wherein I also checked studs again in case the journey had caused any burring. They then kindly waited in their changing room while I went for a wee.

 

[Blackberry]

Sorry, went off a bit then, the point I am making is there might be (light and crowd permitting) a chance to avoid the problem by empathising with the errant team and arranging a (say) 15 minute delay to the start if the other team like the idea; it should restore equity of preparation and will be very hard for the errant team to be late TWICE without incurring the wrath of the County, Organising Group, their own club. You are calling their bluff, once could be claimed as accidental, but twice in 20 minutes???

 

[SimonSmith]

Can you explain why we should be empathizing with the errant team? If they're deliberately sitting down and not coming out, they deserve no empathy.

 

[L'irlandais]

:wales:This is not just happening at Grassroots levels either.

Dr Jamie Barker, associate professor of applied performance psychology at the University of Staffordshire, said: "It was very sensible for England to refuse to go out first.
"For visiting teams the unfamiliarity of the surroundings and the interruption to their normal routine can have a disadvantageous effect. By refusing to go out first they threw the disruption back onto the Welsh players. It was clever psychology and it was fascinating to watch."

 

[Blackberry]

Can you explain why we should be empathizing with the errant team? If they're deliberately sitting down and not coming out, they deserve no empathy.

Simon, try reading empathising with a touch of mischief, see if it makes more sense. I, the poor ref, have no weapon at my disposal to deal with this problem, other than quick thinking. By empathising-with-a-touch-of-mischief (Don't worry guys, I'll get the other side back and put that start time back") I am negating any advantage they may be hoping to gain while avoiding a conflict. Quite sensible. You then added in a bit about a team just refusing to come out, you find out what that reason is before reacting surely? If a team, as in the scenario you have created, is simply refusing to come out they will give you a reason, and you can ingenuously be helpful and offer to put the start back to suit them. The other team can then take their time to reorganise, come inside (see what I did with the school game) thereby negating any advantage-heaven-forbid-I-am-sure-that-was-not -what-was-intended.

Then, at your leisure tell the organising committee what happened, they can then pick up if it is a trend.

So, I guess I am saying, in the absence of clear directions to take, we manage the situation by, when possible putting the start time back so both sides have equity.

 

[SimonSmith]

Might be the differences in the games we do.

I'll know well ahead of time if there are problems that will delay a kick off. Then I get mutual agreement on a new, later, kick off.

Absent any factors that haven't been brought to my attention, if a team refuses to come out, or to get on the field, it's willful (especially after what I outlined above). If the other team has gotten themselves ready to go, they deserve that. Going back in, calming down and then trying to get back 'up' again - that's tough. And they shouldn't have to do it.