Offside at Penalty

[JDET]

Penalty to Green, Blacks have retreated ten, Green take their kick but there winger was a bit keen and got infront of the kicker, should it be a scrum back Black put in?

 

[TheBFG]

in short yes!

had he been in front but not material no issue, maybe a word at next break in play.

But i assume he carried on chasing the ball, you could give him a shout, but if he continued then, scrum back black put in.

i assume by your Q that didn't happen?

 

[Davet]

Or, if you have called him back, and he has ignored you and has been very material in the effect on the game, then why not a penalty for offside? And possibly a card.

 

[Dixie]

Or, if you have called him back, and he has ignored you and has been very material in the effect on the game, then why not a penalty for offside? And possibly a card.

I don't believe this is possible. Law 21.4 requires that those players ahead of the penalty taker should retire, and the sanction for all failures of this law is given at the end; it is a scrum at the mark of the PK.

While the relevant Law itself speaks in terms of getting the retiring players "onside", this does not seem to be an offside offence - or rather, it seems to fall outside the normal scope of the offside laws.

What do others think? It would be good to have a ruling on this.

 

[JDET]

Thanks for the swift repy.I got it wrong I turned the penalty over. I had a feeling I had made the wrong call. Oh well you live and learn. Thankfully it didn't seem to upset the flow of the game.

 

[OB..]

I don't believe this is possible. Law 21.4 requires that those players ahead of the penalty taker should retire, and the sanction for all failures of this law is given at the end; it is a scrum at the mark of the PK.

It says: "Unless otherwise stated in Law...", so I think there is a legitimate argument that Law 11 applies.

 

[scrumpox2]

I wouldn't reach for the whistle but allow play to continue, indicating scrum advantage to black. Tell green offside player to retire. Wait to see if advantage is gained by black, scrum back if not. If the Green offside player fails to retire and prevents black from gaining advantage, penalty to black with option of where to take the penalty.
(First post - waiting to be hammered! LOL!)

 

[DrSTU]

I wouldn't reach for the whistle but allow play to continue, indicating scrum advantage to black. Tell green offside player to retire. Wait to see if advantage is gained by black, scrum back if not. If the Green offside player fails to retire and prevents black from gaining advantage, penalty to black with option of where to take the penalty.
(First post - waiting to be hammered! LOL!)

No hammering needed. I'd shout wait to the player who was ahead of the kicker, see what material effect the action had and then go from there. Obviously if black catch the ball and then start running and he makes the tackle then scrum it back. A quiet chat would ensue but unless it was a massive trend at pen kicks I wouldn't penalise or card.

STU

 

[Davet]

Note I was talking about a situation where the player has refused attempts at managemenht and has had a material effect.

I see no reason a PK should not follow - the scrum would be the standard option, but you can escalate it if required.

 

[DrSTU]

Note I was talking about a situation where the player has refused attempts at managemenht and has had a material effect.

I see no reason a PK should not follow - the scrum would be the standard option, but you can escalate it if required.

Sorry, completely agree with that.

 

[Cymro]

I wouldn't reach for the whistle but allow play to continue, indicating scrum advantage to black. Tell green offside player to retire. Wait to see if advantage is gained by black, scrum back if not. If the Green offside player fails to retire and prevents black from gaining advantage, penalty to black with option of where to take the penalty.
(First post - waiting to be hammered! LOL!)

As JDET refers to this as a kick and not a quick tap your arm for advantage may well look a bit daft, its either going to be line out green or 3 points unless they kick for territory to black in which case its likely to be a long run back to gain said advantage ?