Open hand hand-off ?

[rugbyslave]

May a player hand-off a player in the face . I am not talking about a slap in the face but a genuine hand-off, legal or not, (I can understand that the hand must be flat and not gouging out eyes).

 

[Phil E]

Yes.

msf

 

[Ronald]

Agree with Phil, as long as it is with the palm of the hand, no problem.

 

[TheBFG]

and yes that is from U13's upwards

 

[didds]

Yes.

And coach the defender to get lower!

didds

 

[Browner]

Law Definition = Hand-off: An action taken by a ball carrier to fend off an opponent by using the palm of the hand.

Fend off is different to strike .

Although 10.4(a ) ........
[LAWS](a). Punching or striking. A player must not strike an opponent with the fist or arm, including the elbow, shoulder, head or knee(s).[/LAWS]

Doesnt specifically list 'striking with the open hand/palm' as an offence, i believe most referees would view an 'open palm strike' as a similar offence to a punch, I would.

 

[Guyseep]

The tricky part is distinguishing between an open handed fend off and an open handed strike. I like to look at it this way:

Fend off - arm is straight or bent and ball carrier makes contact with the tackler's face. If his arm is bent, only after he makes contact with his palm can he then extend his arm in a "pushing off" motion.

Strike - arm is bent and before making contact with the tackler's face the ball carrier extends his arm quickly in a "striking" motion.

The difference is subtle, but kind of obvious when you see the two side by side.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Fend off - arm is straight or bent and ball carrier makes contact with the tackler's face. If his arm is bent, only after he makes contact with his palm can he then extend his arm in a "pushing off" motion.

Strike - arm is bent and before making contact with the tackler's face the ball carrier extends his arm quickly in a "striking" motion.

Does it for me!

 

[ChrisR]

The tricky part is distinguishing between an open handed fend off and an open handed strike. I like to look at it this way:

Fend off - arm is straight or bent and ball carrier makes contact with the tackler's face. If his arm is bent, only after he makes contact with his palm can he then extend his arm in a "pushing off" motion.

Strike - arm is bent and before making contact with the tackler's face the ball carrier extends his arm quickly in a "striking" motion.

The difference is subtle, but kind of obvious when you see the two side by side.

Not for me. You are encouraging players to have a straight arm before making contact which is poor technique and potentially dangerous for the BC.

I agree that there is a difference between a push and a punch but your distinction would prohibit safe and effective technique.

 

[Guyseep]

Not for me. You are encouraging players to have a straight arm before making contact which is poor technique and potentially dangerous for the BC.

I agree that there is a difference between a push and a punch but your distinction would prohibit safe and effective technique.

I'm actually not encouraging a bent or a straight arm in the fend off. I am just making a distinction between what I would view as a strike vs a fend off.

How is having a straight arm in a fend off dangerous and or bad technique?!

Here are a few examples of a straight armed fend off:

 

[Ian_Cook]

Here are a few examples of a straight armed fend off:

View attachment 3053
View attachment 3054
View attachment 3055

All of which are 100% legal!

 

[Decorily]

All of which are 100% legal!

Ian, if you are seeing these as stills, as I am, and have not seen them I context, how can you assert that they are legal?

 

[Ian_Cook]

Ian, if you are seeing these as stills, as I am, and have not seen them I context, how can you assert that they are legal?

I cannot see how any of them could be illegal unless something else has come into play, such as fingers in eyes. If that is the case, then its a separate offence, unrelated to the fend.

Even as stills, the techniques used look legal to me.

 

[OB..]

If the arm is held dead straight throughout, it applies more force than if there is some give, followed by a push. The latter is preferable

 

[pwhaling]

Not for me. You are encouraging players to have a straight arm before making contact which is poor technique and potentially dangerous for the BC.

I agree that there is a difference between a push and a punch but your distinction would prohibit safe and effective technique.

I'm actually not encouraging a bent or a straight arm in the fend off. I am just making a distinction between what I would view as a strike vs a fend off.

How is having a straight arm in a fend off dangerous and or bad technique?!

Here are a few examples of a straight armed fend off:
View attachment 3053
View attachment 3054
View attachment 3055

Be careful of that last one. If there is any swing in the arm it will end in red.

 

[ChrisR]

"Swing"? Please explain.

 

[RobLev]

"Swing"? Please explain.

I'm guessing that pwhaling is pointing out that Gold's shoulders are currently a bit more than 45 degrees to his line of running; if he squares them up, the heel of his hand, currently 6" from Blue's jaw, will move 8+" towards Blue.

 

[ChrisR]

Are you (and pwhaling) saying that squaring his shoulders would constitute a strike rather than a fend?

How much force do you think that would impart? Give it a try. You are also assuming the the defenders face isn't moving toward the hand.

Are you also saying that these next two fends are illegal strikes?View attachment 3056View attachment 3057

 

[RobLev]

Are you (and pwhaling) saying that squaring his shoulders would constitute a strike rather than a fend?

How much force do you think that would impart? Give it a try. You are also assuming the the defenders face isn't moving toward the hand.

...

I am assuming nothing, nor was I saying anything - merely guessing at what pwhaling was meaning.

Having said that; if done quickly, quite considerable force. More force than simply straightening the arm, since it brings the weight of the whole of his upper body into play. Have you ever seen a boxer punch someone? Try both yourself against a brick wall and report back on how your wrist feels after the shoulder swing.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Having said that; if done quickly, quite considerable force. More force than simply straightening the arm, since it brings the weight of the whole of his upper body into play. Have you ever seen a boxer punch someone? Try both yourself against a brick wall and report back on how your wrist feels after the shoulder swing.

Try doing it when you are running with the ball in the other hand

IMO, the most likely person to be injured is you, when you dislocate your shoulder, or wreck your shoulder ligaments