Opinions please

[spikeno10]

All,

I arrived at a local 7s tournament (U16, U17 & Colts) yesterday morning to find that 5 of the 7 appointed referees had called within 30 minutes of the start of the event.
The organiser was running round and asking those of us who coach and are qualified whether we could ref between ourselves.
This was all agreed and we got on with a great morning's rugby.

I think I took 4 games in total.

The questions I have relate to two decisions I took which I am now questioning;

1. Black attacking from inside their own 22, split the line and a lightening fast winger was in a foot race with similar from White. They were gone, I did my best to keep up but was at least 15 minutes back as they crossed the line. The body positions suggested that the defender got under the ball carrier and prevented a successful grounding. I gave held up and a scrum to Black. This was marginal but positioning from my point was poor.
Should I have gone with the attacking side and awarded the try? Not that it matters but Black scored from the scrum. (No comments or queries from players or coaches).

2. This one was another foot race but my positioning was better. One attacker (Black) and two defenders (White). Black beats first defender easily and is off to tryline, this defender is running to catch up, second defender runs a cross field line and catches attacker with about 5 metres to the line, however there is no tackle. He seems in my opinion to stick a leg in front of the Black attacker causing a trip and knock on. I award a penalty try for the trip as I believed if he had attempted a tackle at this range the speed of the attacker would have carried them over the line or close enough to score the try. I had warned the player who I judged to have made the trip about pulling opponents back in the first half and this was the last play of the game. I left it as a penalty try, no card. Player was unhappy. Coach thought I was harsh.

I wondered if I should have used a card for this as well as the penalty try.

Would appreciate your thoughts.

 

[OB..]

1. If you are out of position, whether it is your fault or not, you can only use your best judgement. You did.

2. If the trip was deliberate, then a card would be appropriate. If it was part of a tackle attempt, you may feel a card was not necessary. Again you were using your judgement.

 

[Taff]

1. Black attacking ... a lightening fast winger was in a foot race with similar from White. They were gone, I did my best to keep up but was at least 15 minutes back as they crossed the line. The body positions suggested that the defender got under the ball carrier and prevented a successful grounding. I gave held up and a scrum to Black. This was marginal but positioning from my point was poor. Should I have gone with the attacking side and awarded the try? Not that it matters but Black scored from the scrum. (No comments or queries from players or coaches).

I was always told "If you didn't see it - you can't give it" which always struck me as sensible. Personally I would have done what you did and awarded an attacking scrum but for a different reason. I understood if there is any doubt whether the ball was grounded, you award an attacking 5m scrum.

 

[FlipFlop]

1. Black attacking from inside their own 22, split the line and a lightening fast winger was in a foot race with similar from White. They were gone, I did my best to keep up but was at least 15 minutes back as they crossed the line. The body positions suggested that the defender got under the ball carrier and prevented a successful grounding. I gave held up and a scrum to Black. This was marginal but positioning from my point was poor.
Should I have gone with the attacking side and awarded the try? Not that it matters but Black scored from the scrum. (No comments or queries from players or coaches).

Attacking scrum seems right if not sighted.

But am worried it took you 15minutes to get there in a 7s game! The entire game plus half time to cover the distance? Wow.

something to consider - sometimes it isn't the distance, but the angle that is important. Could you have got into a position where you COULD have seen? (taking into account your actual fitness etc). Perhaps a bit wider (rather than following), would increase your view, although put you further from the ball?

 

[spikeno10]

Attacking scrum seems right if not sighted.

But am worried it took you 15minutes to get there in a 7s game! The entire game plus half time to cover the distance? Wow.

something to consider - sometimes it isn't the distance, but the angle that is important. Could you have got into a position where you COULD have seen? (taking into account your actual fitness etc). Perhaps a bit wider (rather than following), would increase your view, although put you further from the ball?

whoops - 15 metres back - not minutes, am not as fit as I'd like to be but not that bad just yet. Did think about the angles on the next game a bit more.

Have to say I really enjoyed the day, as a team we got roundly beaten in all our games (only had 11 players avaliable on the day), but the boys had a laugh, enjoyed the sunshine, scored a few tries and laughed at how unfit their coach is. However, all the teams involved played in a brilliant spirit, coaches were excellent and behaviour on the touchlines was very much a party atmosphere. Won't hestitate to do it again next year.

 

[Dixie]

Re the PT and the card: it sounds as though your PT call was based on whether the try would have been scored even if the defender had executed a legal tackle. This is not the criterion: he had his chance and decided to trip rather than tackle. On this basis, if he'd been beamed up to the Starship Enterprise as he launched himself, would the attacker have scored in the absence of that defender? Answer: clearly yes, so PT.

As to the card, I'd suggest there's no real upside to a YC in those circumstances (last play). Red would ahve eliminated him from the rest of the tournament - and if it was a RC offence, I'd give it irrespective of time remaining (or none).

 

[Davet]

unsighted, then 5m scrum is correct, Flip flops advice on agnles is spot on - get to the side a bite rather than right behind, you can't see through bodies, but getting the angles stops you having to try to do so.

Sounds like definite PT for the trip, as Dixie says, he opted to play illegally, which takes him entirely out of the picture, beam him up and what was there to prevent the try?

As to a card, well trips are generally worth a RC. If it was desparate last minute attempt to stop the try and he gets the message - nothing to lose - give away a try or give away a PT, or maybe get away with it... then he has learned a poor lesson, and next time may break someone's leg...