Opposing props 'boring in'

[Mickman]

I was called on at last minute yesterday to cover a game and had an issue with one side of the scrum in the first half.

Loose head (gold), tight head (green) are both on a big 'IN' angle. The rest of the front row for both sides - good and square. First scrum, I blow it up as scrum folds in. Talk to both props getting them to pop inside shoulders more, square up stance further etc. Got a bit better for a few scrums then as fatigue set in same old issue.

BUT not helping matters was the very unfit body shape of green tight-head (really thick legs, thighs, hips and gut - by the time his second row had head in I don't think he could do anything other than angle in, perhaps answering my question?) and the poor (rugby league style) technique of the gold loose-head (who is really struggling with the engage). Binds were 'reasonable'. I don't think it was deliberate on either part just couldn't manage to completely get it fixed, or decide which player was causing it and therefore, who to PK...

Spoke with Green captain after game and suggest they try swap sides of the scrum, from tight to loose head...

Who in this scenario is causing the trouble? Loose-head (gold) or tight-head (green)? Both?

If I had two 'fit', similarly skilled opposing props where should I look if the same occurs in the future?

 

[Phil E]

I was called on at last minute yesterday to cover a game and had an issue with one side of the scrum in the first half.

Loose head (gold), tight head (green) are both on a big 'IN' angle. The rest of the front row for both sides - good and square. First scrum, I blow it up as scrum folds in. Talk to both props getting them to pop inside shoulders more, square up stance further etc. Got a bit better for a few scrums then as fatigue set in same old issue.

BUT not helping matters was the very unfit body shape of green tight-head (really thick legs, thighs, hips and gut - by the time his second row had head in I don't think he could do anything other than angle in, perhaps answering my question?) and the poor (rugby league style) technique of the gold loose-head (who is really struggling with the engage). Binds were 'reasonable'. I don't think it was deliberate on either part just couldn't manage to completely get it fixed, or decide which player was causing it and therefore, who to PK...

Spoke with Green captain after game and suggest they try swap sides of the scrum, from tight to loose head...

Who in this scenario is causing the trouble? Loose-head (gold) or tight-head (green)? Both?

If I had two 'fit', similarly skilled opposing props where should I look if the same occurs in the future?

Almost impossible to say from that description.
You would need to look at other clues such as angle of feet. If they are really boring in, then the feet will be angled in. If one side is just being taken in, then his feet would still be square as he tries to maintain a square position.
Who's put in is it? Where are they on the field? This might givve you a clue as to who might want to disrupt the opposition hooker by boring in.

All other things being equal you would expect the THP to maintain a solid, square stance. He is the rock of each FR.

 

[FlipFlop]

Were the props shoulders popped out, or were they tucked behind the hooker. If they are popped out and forward, then it is less likely to that the prop is boring in. An indication, but not foolproof.

Also - boring in normally has a change of body angle either on the engage, or straight afterwards.

You can always rule unsafe, and go uncontested.....

 

[ChrisR]

Some things to look for:

1. How tight is the bind? Some props take such a tight bind on the hooks shorts that they can't square up their shoulders.

2. How wide is the props stance? If the props feet are wide apart, and he has a tight bind, when the locks come in they'll push the props hips out and thus angle him in. He needs his inside foot under his inside shoulder. This will allow the locks in without pushing his hips out.

3. Is the TH pulling down on the LH's arm? That can twist the LH and pull his head under the TH's chest.

4. Is the prop bending at the waist or crouching? Tired props will bend rather than crouch and then get twisted in on engage.

 

[Cardiff Ref]

loose head

Hi. It's almost impossible for a LH to bore in without changing his Greg and hip position. If the LH is square and both players are looking like they are at an angle, then it's likely to be the TH. Again, depends who's ball and place on field...

 

[FlipFlop]

What's a Greg, and how do you change the position of one while scrummaging? :shrug:

 

[SimonSmith]

Gregory Peck - neck.

 

[Dixie]

You can always rule unsafe, and go uncontested.....

I like this view. Especially with Old Man social rugby, there are times when you realise there's no way that the prop can physically get his arms wide enough to bind and still allow a straight drive, given the size of his hips. You can speak about popping the shoulder 'til you are blue in the face, but ultimately the problem will remain due to body shape. When you have two such players facing each other, I think you are very quickly into "manage" mode. For me, that would involve a chat to both of them and their skippers/scrum leaders, explaining that from where you stand, the way they are setting up means their drive can only be inwards, not straight. Suggest reducing power from all concerned, treating the scrum as a means of restart rather than a physical battle; but with the understanding that at the first complaint from either hooker, or the next collapse, we are going uncontested.

 

[Cardiff Ref]

Flipflop / simonsmith - sorry fella's, actually meant legs. But i'll take the credit for greg as well (cheers for the recovery simonsmith!) So what I meant is that a 'sign' of a LH prop boring in is if his feet are at an angle and his hips are out.