[Law] Pen kick at goal

[Shelflife]

Pen is awarded to blue.

Blue indicate a kick at goal.

As the blue kicker approaches to kick the ball it falls over.

He elects to drop kick it and puts it through the posts.

Can the opposition now charge the drop goal kick ?

Does the drop goal attempt have to be through the original mark ?

This scenario seems to be allowed for a conversion but I cant seem to find this situation as it relates to a pen kick.

If this happened to me I would allow him to replace the ball if time allowed or if time was nearly up I would allow a drop goal attempt but it would have to be at or behind the mark.

I would not allow the players to charge.

Thoughts ?

 

[Paule23]

In this instance I am not sure why a player would elect to drop kick. It is not the same as a conversion as the opposition cannot charge a penalty.

The laws do not state the the of kick which must be used, but 21.5(f) states "The kicker may place the ball directly on the ground or on sand, sawdust or a kicking tee approved by the Union" which suggests a kick from the ground is the only option.

I would not allow them to take a drop kick attempt, they must kick form the ground, a player can hold the ball if that helps.

If they run out of time normal sanctions apply (scrum at the mark - opposition throws in).

 

[Balones]

It is a penalty and no matter what type of kick is being taken, it cannot be charged.

 

[Balones]

In this instance I am not sure why a player would elect to drop kick. It is not the same as a conversion as the opposition cannot charge a penalty.

The laws do not state the the of kick which must be used, but 21.5(f) states "The kicker may place the ball directly on the ground or on sand, sawdust or a kicking tee approved by the Union" which suggests a kick from the ground is the only option.

I would not allow them to take a drop kick attempt, they must kick form the ground, a player can hold the ball if that helps.

If they run out of time normal sanctions apply (scrum at the mark - opposition throws in).

Why not? As long as they have indicated an attempt at goal that is all that matters. If a team is chasing the game it is not unusual for a quick drop goal to be taken to speed up the game.

 

[didds]

The laws do not state the the of kick which must be used, but 21.5(f) states "The kicker may place the ball directly on the ground or on sand, sawdust or a kicking tee approved by the Union" which suggests a kick from the ground is the only option..

au contraire.

he _MAY do so. Not _MUST_ do so. This indicates tpo me that there are other options from placing it on the ground for a place kick.

Not that - as i am sure OB would point out - the laws are written with that level of specificnous (is that a word?) in mind.

didds

 

[didds]

In this instance I am not sure why a player would elect to drop kick.....

If they run out of time normal sanctions apply (scrum at the mark - opposition throws in).

which is why with just a few seconds to go presumably he may DK it as time will be up before replacing and doing it again.

WRT near the mark etc, as long as he doesn't extract too much urine let it be.

didds

 

[The Fat]

au contraire.

he _MAY do so. Not _MUST_ do so. This indicates tpo me that there are other options from placing it on the ground for a place kick.

Not that - as i am sure OB would point out - the laws are written with that level of specificnous (is that a word?) in mind.

didds

specificness or maybe specificity???


You can take a PK at goal using a drop kick. It IS definitely written in the LoTG somewhere

 

[The Fat]

Here you go.

21.5 Scoring a goal from a penalty kick

(d) If the kicker has not indicated an intention to kick at goal but takes a drop kick and scores a goal, the goal stands.

 

[winchesterref]

Can drop kick, or place kick, and may replace the ball at a penalty. Cannot be charged down.

Had nearly this exact scenario in a game where I allowed the ball to be replaced on the kicker's approach at a penalty; cue multiple instances of coach unpleasantries, crowd "banter" and my delighted smile when I put them straight in the clubhouse to mumbled apologies.

 

[Camquin]

Goal: A player scores a goal by kicking the ball over an opponents’ crossbar and between the goal posts from the field of play, by a place kick or drop-kick. A goal cannot be scored from a kick-off, drop-out or free kick.

Does this mean that you can take a place kick in open play and score!?
I thought that was withdrawn in the 1950s
But I seem to have mislaid the place where it says you cannot.

21.3(a)
Any player may take a penalty or free kick awarded for an infringement with any type of kick: punt, drop kick or place kick

21.5
(a)
A penalty goal can be scored from a penalty kick.

(d)
If the kicker has not indicated an intention to kick at goal but takes a drop kick and scores a goal, the goal stands.

Does this mean that if you have announced you intention to kick you cannot drop kick a goal, surely not? I think it means "Even if ..."

 

[OB..]

Does this mean that you can take a place kick in open play and score!?
I thought that was withdrawn in the 1950s

Are you thinking of the field goal?

At one time you could score a goal by simply kicking a loose ball (on the ground) over the crossbar. This was usually done by accident, and was disallowed in 1905 by changing the definition of a place kick, which now reads[LAWS]Place kick: The ball is kicked after it has been placed on the ground for that purpose.[/LAWS]

In the past you could also score a goal from a Fair Catch (Mark) until they started restricting Marks in 1977.

 

[Camquin]

Thank you OB.
That was indeed what I was thinking.
"Rugby Success Starts Here - approved by the RFU" makes mention that the definition of a goal than included the place kick. Derek Robinson says

The scrum half could throw a long pass to the fly-half,who instantly places the ball for the full back to come up and hoof. All perfectly legal ...

But we all know nobody has ever tried it.

Given the definition above, if someone tried it, what would you do?

 

[ChrisR]

Given the definition above, if someone tried it, what would you do?

I would consider it as if it were a punt. If asked I would reference Law 9 Method of Scoring that has no mention of such a kick.

I'm puzzled by the numbering scheme of Law 9. Were all the laws numbered like this at one time? Very strange.