Penalty try - Eng v Wales

[Dickie E]

Yes, maul would have been driven into in-goal and yes, English player dragged the maul down, but there is no way Wales would have probably grounded the ball for a try. Hasty (ie poor) decision

 

[Treadmore]

Yes, maul would have been driven into in-goal and yes, English player dragged the maul down, but there is no way Wales would have probably grounded the ball for a try. Hasty (ie poor) decision

Wouldn't ref have to assume the English defender who collapsed the maul was no longer there? And then consider if a try was probable?

If so, it wasn't a poor decision.

 

[Dickie E]

Fair comment. However it was white #6 who went to the bin but white #8 (as well as others) who had the ball wrapped up

 

[BikingBud]

Wouldn't ref have to assume the English defender who collapsed the maul was no longer there? And then consider if a try was probable?

If so, it wasn't a poor decision.

Not really, this was not a one v one where you remove the player and there is walk in, you would need to beam up all England players in the maul, otherwise it just becomes held up in goal.

But with a demonstrated very wide margin for probability, one might correctly expect the Welsh deliberate knock-on should also have seen the ref heading under the posts.

 

[Camquin]

Exactly the same occurred in the Saracens v Quins women's game.

Quins held Saracens up, but only after Quins 6 entered at the side and pulled down.
Same outcome, Penalty try and yellow card.
I think it was Sara Cox with the whistle.
Even as a Quins fan, I could not argue with the decision.
The game was on TV, so you might be able to find a clip.

 

[didds]

I "knew" that would have a PT awarded. We can deliberate all we like over whether it WAS probable or not but its what the current direction appears to be
ie moving at pace towards the oppo in goal little prevention of that ... PT

What is clear that different scenarios and offences have differing levels of "probable" - QED the knock on mentioned above, and whilst not foul play a ball buried under a pile of bodies in goal where it seems "probable" isn't even a possibility/consideration.

 

[BikingBud]

As a maul cannot occur outside the field of play then we should also consider the pace and control of the advancing team. Half a second between a maul and it just being a cluster of players around the ball, second scenario can be brought down as it ceased to be a maul once it crossed the try line.

Wales advancing at speed, not really in control, many legal defenders around the ball preventing it being played away.

I would suggest low probability of clean (clear and obvious) grounding. Most likely held up.

But if that's where the bar is now set then other instances eg line break snuffed out due to deliberate knock on, 2v1 with more than half the pitch width would also be probable. After all they prosecuted a 2v1 in a much narrower space for Dingwall's try.

ETA - Whichever route they decide and given Barnes comments about making the game more attractive I'm happy that greater jeopardy ensues for penalties in the 22m, especially repetitive offsides and killing the ball inside the 5m, stop the game give the PT and the yellow card and move on. But it needs to be, as always, consistent in its application.

 

[didds]

that last sentence - yes.

But also clear to _everybody_, in advance, and explained as such at the time. Across all levels - not just "oh, at pro level this happens, but at semi pro something else, and in the community game something different again."

 

[Dickie E]

Exactly the same occurred in the Saracens v Quins women's game.

Quins held Saracens up, but only after Quins 6 entered at the side and pulled down.
Same outcome, Penalty try and yellow card.
I think it was Sara Cox with the whistle.
Even as a Quins fan, I could not argue with the decision.
The game was on TV, so you might be able to find a clip.

Did the offence/s have a material impact on the held up outcome? If not, I can't see how a PT makes sense

 

[Balones]

The call was made by the AR. The ref supported the call. I personally thought it was a bit harsh. H6 seemed to enter legally and then while bound drove into and around the maul. The maul was already going to ground as the H6 came round and went to ground. Hard to describe unless you saw it.